# Ugh. A friend is assuming I will lie for him. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 30, 2011, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugh-a-friend-is-assuming-i-will-lie-for-him/594630 "2011-08-30T14:52:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugh-a-friend-is-assuming-i-will-lie-for-him/594630/41 "2011-08-31T01:11:03Z")
I am always willing to give friends a reference, but I’ve never been asked to lie about my own work history, and I wouldn’t be comfortable with that part of it. I’m sure your friend has good points you can speak to. He is obviously generous, well-liked? Pleasant to be around? Hard working? On-time? Stand-up guy? If they ask questions you can’t answer, “I couldn’t say” (Who really knows two years later what their employees salaries were?) "I’d have to find out, is it terribly important? “Were you his supervisor?” “I’ve never supervised him directly, no. Colleagues, and I definitely depended upon him.” Them : “Would you hire him again?” You: “If I had an opening to fit him you all would never have a chance.” That sort of thing. Most companies these days will only give length of employment and last salary, and since you don’t work fro that company _anymore_ you reasonably would not have that info available. so just talk about your friends good points, and if you’ve ever seen him worklet them know what you’ve seen him do well. Then drop by on the way home from work and kick his ass for putting you in a bad situation. Lying about a company (especially a lumber company, does he not know the level of permitting they require?!?) is just dumb. God willing he at least took the time to find one that was defunct. . . All the employer really wants to tknow is “Will this guy get the job done.” If you’ve answered that honestly then you’ve done them no harm. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugh-a-friend-is-assuming-i-will-lie-for-him/594630/42 "2011-08-31T01:40:08Z")
Of course you shouldn’t do it. It’s reprehensible. I’m disgusted by some of the responses here. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugh-a-friend-is-assuming-i-will-lie-for-him/594630/43 "2011-08-31T02:03:02Z")
I would do it, but only for my bestest friend. Why? Well, for one thing, there is no danger for me in it. Unless he’s trying to work where I do, there’s no way this would bite me in this ass. It could bite him in the ass, but chances are it won’t. If lying could get us both in trouble and there was a bigger than slim chance of it happening, then I wouldn’t do it. Now, I WOULD ask him exactly what kind of job he’s applying for and what skillset am I supposed to be vouching for. Just so that I don’t look stupid if they ask me, “So can you recall what he used to do at the lumber company?” And I’d scold him for not telling me all of this information beforehand, in addition to not asking if it was okay. A friend shouldn’t presume someone would lie for them because everyone’s morality meter is set differently. But I wouldn’t back out. Not if he was my bestest friend. To me this falls into the “lie to help someone” category. I always interpreted the “Thou shall not bear false witness” line in the bible to mean telling a lie to hurt someone (like saying someone raped you when they didn’t). My moral framework allows for this type of mischief, but I would use it sparingly and discriminately. In the OP’s case, this does sound like a good friend, so maintaining the friendship seems more important than being a boy scout. Especially since this is about employment rather than something stupid and mean like cheating on a girlfriend or something. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugh-a-friend-is-assuming-i-will-lie-for-him/594630/44 "2011-08-31T02:06:10Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > I hope your “friends” know that you will only be there for them when it is easy to do so. My friends know I’m not a liar so wouldnt ask it of me. Generally that’s considered a good quality. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugh-a-friend-is-assuming-i-will-lie-for-him/594630/45 "2011-08-31T04:44:37Z")
If something like this wouldn’t come back to bite me in the ass, sure I’d help him out. However, I WOULD be pissed that he didn’t tell me he was going to do so in the first place. It’s not so much lying, as him just going and doing it and THEN telling me after the fact. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugh-a-friend-is-assuming-i-will-lie-for-him/594630/46 "2011-08-31T05:38:38Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > Not only would I give my mate a reference, by the time I am done he will have invented the fucking light bulb. This. > [@Steophan](#): > > This. If you wouldn’t lie for a friend in these circumstances, you’re not a good friend. And this. ---
**Author:** ![Emphant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Emphant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emphant)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugh-a-friend-is-assuming-i-will-lie-for-him/594630/47 "2011-08-31T10:23:56Z")
I’d tell a lie like this for one of my good friends in a second and I can’t believe you or anyone else is questioning it. Next time you see him, a simple “hey man…next time just ask me first okay?” should suffice and that should be the end of that. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugh-a-friend-is-assuming-i-will-lie-for-him/594630/48 "2011-08-31T10:43:01Z")
> [@Emphant](#): > > I’d tell a lie like this for one of my good friends in a second and I can’t believe you or anyone else is questioning it. Yes, what is this world coming to where someone might have a different opinion from you? It’s an _outrage_, I say! ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugh-a-friend-is-assuming-i-will-lie-for-him/594630/49 "2011-08-31T13:41:35Z")
I’m not going to get into whether lying for a friend is a good or bad thing. But that’s not the problem here. The problem is that he expects you to do this. If you believe lying for a friend is required, then that friend has no reason to ever trust you. How do they know you’re not lying to them to help out another friend? There may be times when you decide that less harm occurs if you lie than if you don’t. But it’s far from a general rule, and is not something a friend should expect out of you. As for what to do? I dunno. I honestly have never encountered this situation. But that’s because I’ve never had a close friend who didn’t think lying was wrong, let alone one who would expect others to lie for them. I have had acquaintances expect me to lie, and the most I would do for them is say something that is misleading, but technically true. Oh, and I don’t view morality as selfishness. Morality is what overrides the inherently selfish human nature. Lying for a friend is not unselfish. It is still only helping someone out because they treat you well. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugh-a-friend-is-assuming-i-will-lie-for-him/594630/50 "2011-08-31T14:28:06Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > My friends know I’m not a liar so wouldnt ask it of me. Generally that’s considered a good quality. Of course it is. But the question here is different. He’s already been put in the situation by a friend who has stood by him in some pretty difficult circumstances. My friends would have called me first, because they depend upon my advice when it comes to job hunting. And Iwould have suggested that they use me as a personal reference. Then I woudl get ont he phone and explain how much I value this person’s advice in x, y, and z, technical areas relevant to the job description. But the OP wasn’t given that opportunity. And the question is, what should he do? Can you address the moral grey area at all? ---
**Author:** ![Brandus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@Brandus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brandus)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugh-a-friend-is-assuming-i-will-lie-for-him/594630/51 "2011-08-31T14:29:55Z")
People saying “no” must have boring, chilly friendships. I would hate to know any of you. If it’s your real friend, you lie. They’re trying to get a job, not covering up a murder for god sakes. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugh-a-friend-is-assuming-i-will-lie-for-him/594630/52 "2011-08-31T14:43:23Z")
[Seinfeld covers this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T35QhLx_KI) (Youtube video) ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugh-a-friend-is-assuming-i-will-lie-for-him/594630/53 "2011-08-31T14:57:36Z")
> [@Brandus](#): > > People saying “no” must have boring, chilly friendships. I would hate to know any of you. I would say they aren’t even “friendships”, seems more like a bunch of meaningless acquaintances. And I am sorry, but “A true friend wouldn’t ask me in the first place” is some sort of bullshit dodge of the question. A friend _has_ asked you, and if you are a true friend then you stand up to be counted. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugh-a-friend-is-assuming-i-will-lie-for-him/594630/54 "2011-08-31T14:59:44Z")
No, I would not lie for a friend. I won’t even lie for my _wife_, FFS. Any friend of mine would know that. I don’t lie. Hell, I’m having enough trouble keeping up the Santa illusion with my 6yo, and that’s with me deliberately avoiding any direct questions about the Fat Man’s existence. Although I have no problem drinking the sherry and mince pie, thereby perpetuating the whole sorry lie-fest, so I might be a hypocrite. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugh-a-friend-is-assuming-i-will-lie-for-him/594630/55 "2011-08-31T15:01:50Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > And I am sorry, but “A true friend wouldn’t ask me in the first place” is some sort of bullshit dodge of the question. A friend _has_ asked you, and if you are a true friend then you stand up to be counted. A true friend doesn’t shield their adult friends from the consequences of their mistakes. Lying for someone is on the scale of being their getaway driver - sure, you didn’t rob the bank, but you helped them commit the crime (and fraud is a crime, last I checked) ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugh-a-friend-is-assuming-i-will-lie-for-him/594630/56 "2011-08-31T15:10:50Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > A true friend doesn’t shield their adult friends from the consequences of their mistakes. Lying for someone is on the scale of being their getaway driver - sure, you didn’t rob the bank, but you helped them commit the crime (and fraud is a crime, last I checked) Such a selfish attitude. You are not being asked to drive a getaway car, you are not being asked to hide a body, in fact you are being asked to do something that will have no tangible negative effects on you whatsoever, yet your reaction is not to help but to give a fucking ethics lecture. (Lying for someone is like being a getaway driver :rolleyes:. Is this some puritan American religious thing I don’t get? Or am I the only one that puts my friends ahead of the moral state of my everlasting soul? :rolleyes:) ---
**Author:** ![Vihaga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Vihaga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vihaga)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugh-a-friend-is-assuming-i-will-lie-for-him/594630/57 "2011-08-31T15:14:26Z")
Nah. It’s just that some people don’t lie often, won’t lie professionally, and would seriously reconsider being friends with people who lie often, let alone who would ask them to do it. Knowing your friends is part of being friends with them. People view morality differently. Would you help a friend lie about beating his wife? Cheating on his wife? Committing insurance fraud? Stealing from another friend? Everyone’s line is somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugh-a-friend-is-assuming-i-will-lie-for-him/594630/58 "2011-08-31T15:21:39Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > Such a selfish attitude. It’s not the person being asked to cover up someone else’s lie that’s selfish. > [@](#): > > You are not being asked to drive a getaway car, you are not being asked to hide a body, in fact you are being asked to do something that will have no tangible negative effects on you whatsoever, yet your reaction is not to help but to give a fucking ethics lecture. I am being asked to cover for a possibly criminal offence. One that could have unintended consequences. What if it gets out, and then gets back to _my_ boss that I lied about someone’s resume, for instance? > [@](#): > > (Lying for someone is like being a getaway driver :rolleyes:. Is this some puritan American religious thing I don’t get? Umm, no, definitely not. :rolleyes:right back at you. > [@](#): > > Or am I the only one that puts my friends ahead of the moral state of my everlasting soul? :rolleyes:) I don’t have a soul. But I do have a conscience. And a moral compass. One that doesn’t sway at the least inclination of my “mates”. I was perhaps a bit exaggerated in my first post - there are some things I would lie about: “Do you have any Jews in your attic?”, that sort of thing. Covering for liars isn’t one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugh-a-friend-is-assuming-i-will-lie-for-him/594630/59 "2011-08-31T15:23:24Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > I would say they aren’t even “friendships”, seems more like a bunch of meaningless acquaintances. > > And I am sorry, but “A true friend wouldn’t ask me in the first place” is some sort of bullshit dodge of the question. A friend _has_ asked you, and if you are a true friend then you stand up to be counted. If I’d lie for you, I’d lie to you. My friends and family know me as someone who can be trusted because I try not to lie; it would be pretty silly of them to assume that I’d lie for them now, when they have benefited in the past from knowing I’m someone who doesn’t lie. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugh-a-friend-is-assuming-i-will-lie-for-him/594630/60 "2011-08-31T15:29:49Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > I would say they aren’t even “friendships”, seems more like a bunch of meaningless acquaintances. > > And I am sorry, but “A true friend wouldn’t ask me in the first place” is some sort of bullshit dodge of the question. A friend _has_ asked you, and if you are a true friend then you stand up to be counted. The point was that my actual friends know me well enough to know that I wouldn’t lie and we have relationships based in honesty and mutual respect. I know some people in those kind of “lie to cover each other” relationships and they are all people that are very juvenile. So no, I wouldn’t lie for the person. I would try to see I’d there was a way to spin it as a mixup and give a personal reference or not answer any unknown numbers for a while or something like that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugh-a-friend-is-assuming-i-will-lie-for-him/594630.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugh-a-friend-is-assuming-i-will-lie-for-him/594630.md?page=4)