# Ugly American cuisine **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 16, 2013, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812 "2013-04-16T04:18:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/221 "2013-04-18T12:36:27Z")
He _is_ talking about pub food. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/222 "2013-04-18T12:48:23Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > Those are definitely Midwestern. I sometimes think the word “salad” has unbounded meaning here. > > Consider the following: > > [Tuna Macaroni](http://www.mrsgerrys.com/our-products/macaroni-salads/tuna-macaroni/), a “macaroni salad”. > > [Roasted Garlic Pasta](http://www.mrsgerrys.com/our-products/pasta-salads/roasted-garlic-pasta/), a “pasta salad”. > > [Cowboy Caviar](http://www.mrsgerrys.com/our-products/marinated-salads/cowboy-caviar/), a “marinated salad”. > > And of course we have traditional potato salad, all those [weird jello salads](https://www.google.com/search?q=weird+jello+salad&client=firefox-a&hs=TCM&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=HmdvUYegK8WMygH2mYHwDA&ved=0CDcQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=956) and salads with whipped cream plus orange and / or apple slices, and salad salad (with, like, lettuce and stuff). Generally speaking, here in the US, “salad” is a term used for a cold dish that’s a combination of various pre-cooked or raw items with some sort of dressing. Classically, it’s raw vegetables with a vinaigrette or mayonnaise-based dressing, but there’s nothing stopping it from being pasta, vegetables and that same vinaigrette. Cole slaw is a sort of salad, and Tabbouleh would probably be lumped in that category as well. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/223 "2013-04-18T12:54:00Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > He _is_ talking about pub food. True. But you will find non-iceberg lettuce at the types of pubs that would serve steak and chips, for instance. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/224 "2013-04-18T12:55:33Z")
I thought that “salad” for a wide range of cold dishes was not a specifically American usage. Anyway, I’ve heard British TV references to “cold beef salad” and “cheese salad.” What are those? Lettuce topped with beef and cheese, respectively? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/225 "2013-04-18T13:08:52Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I thought that “salad” for a wide range of cold dishes was not a specifically American usage. Yeah, for example, throughout Eastern Europe there’s quite a lot of salads that are simply vegetables and/or meats suspended in mayonnaise. For example, this is what is called [“French salad”](http://www.tutinet.com/blog/pics_up/francia-salata.jpg) in Hungary, which is almost identical to a common type of salad in Poland. God knows why it’s called French salad, as it doesn’t look like anything the French would do, which is basically dump a sack of mixed frozen veggies into mayonnaise. (Although, I have to admit, I do like it served alongside fresh bread and cold cuts.) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/226 "2013-04-18T13:13:59Z")
> [@vontsira](#): > > Thanks – and to all, for all explanations / recipes re “casserole-y stuff”. Perhaps as a Brit, I fail to “get it”; but the big role seemingly played here by canned soup, comes across as a bit unappealing to me. Wonder whether a “snob” version of the green bean casserole might be done, starting from all-fresh ingredients? Alton Brown from Good Eats has a [version like that](http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/best-ever-green-bean-casserole-recipe/index.html) for green bean casserole. I think you can see how just combining a couple ingredients is more appealing to some people. There was also an episode about reclaiming the casserole as good eats, but it seems to be a bugger to find. Note: if you want to see the green been episode, google Bean Stalker. ---
**Author:** ![vontsira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/51bf81/32.png) [@vontsira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vontsira)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/227 "2013-04-18T13:20:07Z")
Likely, linguistic rather than culinary – but, “Mac and Cheese”. Here in the UK, we have something which seems very similar, but we call it “macaroni cheese”. I had literally never come across the expression “Mac and Cheese”, before discovering the Internet, and message boards with a largely American membership. The first time I encountered said phrase, was in a thread not basically about food / cuisine, and it honestly had me scratching my head about “Mac and Cheese – what the heck is that?” – the context didn’t help much. By all means, colour me dim… ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/228 "2013-04-18T13:20:12Z")
Note: the episode I mentioned above contains the history of Campbell’s and a Bewitched reference. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/229 "2013-04-18T13:41:44Z")
> [@vontsira](#): > > Likely, linguistic rather than culinary – but, “Mac and Cheese”. Here in the UK, we have something which seems very similar, but we call it “macaroni cheese”. I had literally never come across the expression “Mac and Cheese”, before discovering the Internet, and message boards with a largely American membership. The first time I encountered said phrase, was in a thread not basically about food / cuisine, and it honestly had me scratching my head about “Mac and Cheese – what the heck is that?” – the context didn’t help much. By all means, colour me dim… I grew up calling it macaroni and cheese. “mac and cheese” seems to be a relatively recent shortening of the term. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/230 "2013-04-18T13:54:38Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I grew up calling it macaroni and cheese. “mac and cheese” seems to be a relatively recent shortening of the term. Yeah, same here. In the '70s, we called it “macaroni and cheese.” ---
**Author:** ![vontsira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/51bf81/32.png) [@vontsira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vontsira)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/231 "2013-04-18T14:09:08Z")
> [@Sattua](#): > > What about the weird Midwestern category of “salads”? These dishes are always based on cream cheese, Cool Whip, and fruit. There’s the ubiquitous “strawberry pretzel salad” with crushed pretzels, cream cheese-cool whip, and strawberry jello. There’s “Snickers salad” with applies, cut-up Snickers bars, and cool whip. There’s “candy apple salad” with apples, grapes, peanuts, marshmallows and cool whip. > > This is just American, right? I’m not American, so take what I post, with the proverbial “pinch of”… but in our family home, we had a number of books of verse by Ogden Nash. I recall one item in same – written, I’d reckon, at least sixty years ago – which began: “This is a very sad ballad, Because it’s about the way too many people make a salad.” He went on to express his preference for salads featuring savoury items, and his dislike of their featuring sweet ones. I don’t find Ogden always funny or entertaining; but feel that in this particular instance, he was right on the money. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/232 "2013-04-18T14:23:17Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Yeah, same here. In the '70s, we called it “macaroni and cheese.” Yeah, I would say that started picking up in a big way maybe 15 years ago, to my recollection. It might have been in sporadic use before then, but for the longest time, it was always “macaroni and cheese.” ---
**Author:** ![apollonia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2bfe46/32.png) [@apollonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/apollonia)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/233 "2013-04-18T14:45:07Z")
I should like to point out that “pretzel salad” as it were is not all the ingredients mushed up together and suspended in Jello. It’s a pretzel crust made of crushed-up pretzels and butter baked–like a graham-cracker crust. Then a layer of Cool Whip and cream cheese, then a layer of Jello on top. It’s like a parfait with a crust. And it’s really, really, really tasty. ---
**Author:** ![Myron\_Van\_Horowitzski](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Myron\_Van\_Horowitzski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myron_Van_Horowitzski)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/234 "2013-04-18T15:07:19Z")
> [@vontsira](#): > > I’m not American, so take what I post, with the proverbial “pinch of”… but in our family home, we had a number of books of verse by Ogden Nash. I recall one item in same – written, I’d reckon, at least sixty years ago – which began: > > “This is a very sad ballad, > Because it’s about the way too many people make a salad.” Remember this one: “Shake and shake The catsup bottle. First none will come And then a lot’ll.” ---
**Author:** ![Skypist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skypist/32/169_2.png) [@Skypist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skypist)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/235 "2013-04-18T17:45:28Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > Those are definitely Midwestern. I sometimes think the word “salad” has unbounded meaning here. > > Consider the following: > > [Tuna Macaroni](http://www.mrsgerrys.com/our-products/macaroni-salads/tuna-macaroni/), a “macaroni salad”. > > [Roasted Garlic Pasta](http://www.mrsgerrys.com/our-products/pasta-salads/roasted-garlic-pasta/), a “pasta salad”. > > [Cowboy Caviar](http://www.mrsgerrys.com/our-products/marinated-salads/cowboy-caviar/), a “marinated salad”. > > And of course we have traditional potato salad, all those [weird jello salads](https://www.google.com/search?q=weird+jello+salad&client=firefox-a&hs=TCM&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=HmdvUYegK8WMygH2mYHwDA&ved=0CDcQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=956) and salads with whipped cream plus orange and / or apple slices, and salad salad (with, like, lettuce and stuff). > **[Definition of SALAD](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/salad)** > > any of various usually cold dishes: such as; raw greens (such as lettuce) often combined with other vegetables and toppings and served especially with dressing… See the full definition According to Merriam-Webster, “salad” can mean greens with vegetables and dressing or just small pieces of food with dressing (usually mayo). It can also mean an incongruous mixture or hodgepodge. > [@Acsenray](#): > > Hmm… that reminds me. I just bought a four-pack of Virgil’s diet root beer today. I’m going to go crack one open. Whyyyyyyyyyy? Why do you like something that tastes like medicine? 😕😛 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/236 "2013-04-18T18:16:41Z")
> [@Skypist](#): > > Whyyyyyyyyyy? Why do you like something that tastes like medicine? 😕😛 Cuz it doesn’t taste like medicine to me. For some perverse reason your country has ruined your appreciation of the flavor by using that flavor for medicine. Over here, we don’t have medicine flavored like that. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/237 "2013-04-18T19:43:55Z")
Yeah, I never got the root beer=medicine thing, either. Do yurps really have medicine that tastes like that? Over here, cough syrup tends to taste something like Jagermeister or Grape Kool-Aid (does Europe have an equivalent to Kool-Aid?). I can understand not liking root beer, because it does tend to be very sweet, but so does a lot of soda. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/238 "2013-04-18T19:48:04Z")
“Artisanal” root beers tend to be not as sweet and are heavier on the vanilla, which I find to be very tasty. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/239 "2013-04-18T20:04:46Z")
I’m a cream soda kind of guy. ---
**Author:** ![vontsira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/51bf81/32.png) [@vontsira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vontsira)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/240 "2013-04-18T20:49:39Z")
> [@Myron\_Van\_Horowitzski](#): > > Remember this one: > > “Shake and shake > The catsup bottle. > First none will come > And then a lot’ll.” And another Ogden N. food one: Celery, raw Develops the jaw; But celery, stewed Is more quietly chewed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812.md?page=13)