# Ugly American cuisine **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 16, 2013, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812 "2013-04-16T04:18:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/121 "2013-04-17T05:34:50Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > And that’s, overall, pretty patronizing. Did you ever see a Midwest grocery store back then? Fresh fruits and vegetables only when they were “in season,” so we were stuck with canned. I walk through a modern supermarket and marvel at how small the canned food section is and that you can get a banana in November; it used to be that you didn’t see them before February. And I lived in a freakin’ suburb where the IGA was one step beyond the old-time general store it had once been. > > I was raised on that glop and still get a nostalgic taste for a nice hot dish. Thank you. I get so tired of food snobs who look down their noses. They remind me of people who say that the only real music is classical. Yes I like fresh food that’s prepared well., but there are things beyond what they consider acceptable that can taste good if done well. Yes I’ve learned to appreciate and even prefer seasonings beyond the sugar and salt that my mother used, but she did make some pretty damned tasty stuff at times. Green bean casserole is a Thanksgiving tradition in my extended family and it’s very tasty if it’s done properly. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/122 "2013-04-17T05:36:14Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > It’s only patronizing, if I use a time machine to troll 50s housewives. Like you said, grocery stores are infinitely better stocked. I don’t begrudge the old school, but there are so many better options for dinner now. There are plenty of 50s housewives still around, no time machine needed. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/123 "2013-04-17T06:33:25Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > I would offer the friendly amendment that your last comment applies to Southerners other than Louisianians. For all that I’ve lived in Texas for many years now, I’m still baffled that they eat that pallid paste they call “gravy”. What I was surprised to discover (and as this thread has shown I know my gravy) is that apparently there is a Florida gravy I had never heard of before. They add [tomatoes](http://flfarmersmarket.com/southern-tomato-gravy-from-scratch/) as an ingredient. ---
**Author:** ![stui\_magpie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stui_magpie/32/11010_2.png) [@stui\_magpie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stui_magpie)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/124 "2013-04-17T06:48:04Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > Speaking of hot sauce, I remember seeing ads for Tobasco here in Australia but it didn’t seem to catch on. Australians like sweet chili sauce much more than hot chili sauce in my experience. It may not have helped that Tobasco used lines like “Makes two day old pizza taste like day old pizza!” Dunno bout that, I’ve had Tabasco sauce in the pantry for years. Although I’ve gravitated upward in intensity to the Blairs Death Sauce range and the Slap yo Mama cajun seasoning which is great. Lately I’ve been going for the produce from the Chilli Factory in Qld though. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/125 "2013-04-17T07:03:50Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Sharp cheddar and apples are wonderful together. Yum! I had a dish one time that was amazing. They started with roast pork. Then they put apples on top. Then sharp cheddar cheese on top of that. Then a spice crumble topping over that. ---
**Author:** ![vontsira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/51bf81/32.png) [@vontsira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vontsira)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/126 "2013-04-17T07:19:29Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > I can’t hate casseroles because they are the height of inoffensive dishes. I sort of hate what they stand for, but they’re largely palatable. That said, I still bitch whenever my wife makes one. Tater tot casserole night is see what’s in the fridge night for me. As I’ve mentioned, general American casserole-type dishes feel not a great turn-on, to non-American me. I had to Google “tater tots” – a casserole made with hash-brown-like “bits” – !? But as many posters here rightly say, blanket dismissal of a whole food genre is a bit sweeping; and I’d need to try some of these things, before doing any vehement judging. > [@](#): > > This is a holdover from an era where freezers and therefor icecream weren’t common. It’s a way to get some dairy with your apple pie. It is surprisingly not bad – if you have a nice piece of sharp cheddar. In the UK, serving cheddar cheese with apple pie has long been fairly common. I quite like the combination. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/127 "2013-04-17T08:12:02Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > I can’t hate casseroles because they are the height of inoffensive dishes. I sort of hate what they stand for, but they’re largely palatable. That said, I still bitch whenever my wife makes one. Tater tot casserole night is see what’s in the fridge night for me. I hate casseroles with every molecule of my being. Casserole is a synonym for “let’s take some previously good ingredients and cook them together until they have no flavor or texture of their own.” Usually, by the time the center is done, the edges are a mix of crispy and mush. I grew up with the aforementioned tater tot casserole. If my wife decided to make it and offer it to me, I’d go consult a divorce lawyer. It’d be obvious she has either completely forgotten who I am, or is trying to act out _Whatever Happened to Baby Jane_ with a casserole as a stand-in for the rat. Similarly, I am not allowed to shoot and eat squirrel. Even if it’s not going to be prepared in her kitchen (and she’s the one who brought home the book with the recipe in it!). ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/128 "2013-04-17T08:28:37Z")
“Tater tot casserole” does sound pretty disgusting, but, to echo **vontsira** , you shouldn’t dismiss an entire genre based on one or two bad examples. Just because you’ve had one or two that weren’t cooked properly doesn’t mean that that’s always the case. ---
**Author:** ![vontsira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/51bf81/32.png) [@vontsira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vontsira)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/129 "2013-04-17T08:41:49Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Here’s a question for Europeans: Turnips, yes or no? > > I was reading a book on World War I and it said that when the British blockade got really bad, Germans began eating turnips. Up until then, turnips had been considered as stuff you feed animals not something people would eat. I assume this was common throughout Europe and not just in Germany. > > Did being forced to eat turnips change this attitude? Do people eat turnips or did it go back to being animal food as soon as the blockade ended? Turnip-related things, generally (from a British perspective): terentii expresses the thought that turnips are an integral part of Irish stew. I confess that I’ve seen few recipes for the dish which featured turnips. “Wiki” says, concerning Irish stew, that the purists maintain that the only acceptable and traditional ingredients are mutton / lamb, potatoes, onions, and water. Others would add such items as carrots, turnips and pearl barley; but the purists consider that they spoil the true flavour of the dish. I’ve always had the strong impression that in the British Isles the turnip, while not a prime favourite vegetable for human consumption, has always essentially been eaten by people as well as animals. As regards the European continent: for what it’s worth, I’ve got books of French, German, and Austrian recipes – published late 20th century – and they contain some, though not very many, recipes featuring turnips: mostly, soups and stews are involved. Kind-of on the topic, and involving food shortages in the World Wars (though with Germany on the dishing-out, not the receiving, end). An uncle of mine had the bad luck to be caught in Britain’s Channel Islands, by the German occupation of them, 1940 - 45. He recounted that in the last winter of the war, 1944 / 45, food got desperately short (for the Germans as well as the civilian population), with it being no longer possible for the islands to be supplied from France – that country being back in Allied hands. (The Germans stubbornly hung on in the islands, to the very end of the war.) That winter became known in the islands, as the “turnip winter” – turnips being about the only foodstuff which was not horrendously scarce. My uncle said that after that experience, he wished never even to see another turnip for as long as he lived. I gather also that in WW2 German-occupied France, food became decidedly scarce for the French population. Among the very few things which remained relatively abundant, were swedes, and Jerusalem artichokes. The French say ruefully that never before in France, had humans being reduced to eating swedes. (So far as I’m concerned, animals are very welcome indeed, to swedes.) I’ve always been charmed by the French names for the two abovementioned vegetables, which I learned via reading about this episode – “rutabaga”, and “topinambour”, respectively. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/130 "2013-04-17T09:16:10Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > What do non-Americans think about Pork Rinds? You mean crackling? A great bar snack. Me, I don’t quite grok chilli dogs and most fair food (Dorito pie in the bag? Seriously? I had to make some to try it out - I was not impressed), but that segment of the Regrettable Food spectrum that involves Jello salads has the canned mushroom soup casserole segment beaten for pure WTF-ness Still, nothing the US produces quite matches my dread of Poutine and Nanaimo bars, so your Northern neighbours have you beat. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/131 "2013-04-17T09:25:09Z")
vontsira writes: \> The French say ruefully that never before in France, had humans being reduced \> to eating swedes. For the Americans here who are worried about the French becoming cannibals, swedes are rutabagas. But who are we to talk? Most of us frequently eat Danish. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/132 "2013-04-17T09:35:12Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > “Tater tot casserole” does sound pretty disgusting, but, to echo **vontsira** , you shouldn’t dismiss an entire genre based on one or two bad examples. > > Just because you’ve had one or two that weren’t cooked properly doesn’t mean that that’s always the case. Nah, I have given casseroles ample chance. I like none of them. My mom was very fond of making them, and I have had plenty at church functions. No thank you. Similar to my experience with fish, I thought I didn’t like enchiladas until I was at least 23 (and I’m from Texas!:eek:). When my then girlfriend, now wife ordered them at a restaurant, I was confused, as I couldn’t understand why she’d want to have something awful for dinner. She insisted they were good. I tried them, and she was RIGHT! It turns out that old harpy mom was foisting enchilada casserole on me all those years and calling it enchiladas. (In mom’s defense, she makes the best fried chicken in the world.) I am not even fond of lasagna. Partly because it tries to sneak in, not having the bravery to call itself a casserole, and partly because it’s a damn casserole. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/133 "2013-04-17T10:23:51Z")
I’ve actually gotten myself into an argument about casseroles of all things; something I actually have no strong feelings about one way or the other. 😛 To each his own. But lasagna? A casserole? :rolleyes: How about baked ziti, or chicago style pizza with multiple fillings, or various meat pies? Are they to be considered casseroles? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/134 "2013-04-17T10:34:33Z")
The chief virtue of the casserole/hot dish is that you could make an edible (not great, but edible) meal with little effort out of canned goods. Back before fresh fruits and vegetables were available all year round being able to make canned foods palatable was a necessary skill. During their heyday they were necessary. Frankly, today’s poor in US food deserts would be better off with these than with the microwave frozen crap so readily available. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/135 "2013-04-17T10:41:41Z")
Not every casserole requires canned goods. My mother used to make a zucchini thing with some sort of cream sauce and crumb topping. It used fresh zucchini and homemade sauce, nothing from a can. ETA: Found it: [http://www.familycookbookproject.com/view\_recipesite.asp?rid=2532762&uid=62251&sid=145540](http://www.familycookbookproject.com/view_recipesite.asp?rid=2532762&uid=62251&sid=145540) ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/136 "2013-04-17T10:53:48Z")
In the West, root vegetables have a bad reputation largely because, out of necessity, they were grown in private gardens and consumed in quantity during the World Wars. In Britain in particular, the Ministry of Food published a cookbook for just such fare (Google “Woolton Pie”). Such things generally had to be boiled and mashed in order to get the maximum amount of nutrition from them, and proper seasonings weren’t available. After four or six years of consuming such dishes, I’d probably turn my nose up at them too, but properly prepared they’re quite tasty (and good for you). ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/137 "2013-04-17T11:04:03Z")
Casseroles, BTW, are a traditional part of French cooking (the word itself is French). They’re often considered “Peasant Food,” but peasants have always known how to eat. Of course they’re made with fresh ingredients, not canned. Fresh ingredients are always better. Canned goods merely represent convenience (and possibly nostalgia). ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/138 "2013-04-17T11:19:32Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > I hate casseroles with every molecule of my being. Casserole is a synonym for “let’s take some previously good ingredients and cook them together until they have no flavor or texture of their own.” I take it here you mean strictly Midwestern-style casserole - that’s certainly not a description I’d use for cassoulet or tajine, for example. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/139 "2013-04-17T11:27:07Z")
> [@vontsira](#): > > I’ve always had the strong impression that in the British Isles the turnip, while not a prime favourite vegetable for human consumption, has always essentially been eaten by people as well as animals. As regards the European continent: for what it’s worth, I’ve got books of French, German, and Austrian recipes – published late 20th century – and they contain some, though not very many, recipes featuring turnips: mostly, soups and stews are involved. Turnips (and parsnips) were a bigger deal before the introduction of potatoes - [Armoured Turnips](http://gallowglass.org/jadwiga/SCA/cooking/recipes/armoredturnips.html) is an excellent medieval precursor to potatoes gratiné. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/140 "2013-04-17T12:11:25Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > What do non-Americans think about Pork Rinds? A staple pub snack in England: [http://www.mrporky.co.uk/products/pork-scratchings.html](http://www.mrporky.co.uk/products/pork-scratchings.html) > [@terentii](#): > > I also had mashed turnips recommended to me as an accompaniment to haggis by a Brit. Whether the Scots would boil or roast them first, I don’t know. That’s swedes, not turnips. They are boiled and mashed together with potatoes and served with haggis as neeps & tatties. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812.md?page=8)