# Ugly American cuisine **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 16, 2013, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812 "2013-04-16T04:18:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![vontsira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/51bf81/32.png) [@vontsira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vontsira)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/141 "2013-04-17T13:32:28Z")
I have the impression that Scottish “neeps” (as in “and tatties, with haggis” – particularly popular in celebrating the anniversary of Robert Burns’s birth, Jan. 25th) can in fact be either swedes, or ordinary turnips – swede is more common. This confirmed, by recent quick Google session. (Sometimes in English, the expression “swede turnip” is used to mean the swede-- just to confuse things !) I believe that the Scots word “neep” is actually borrowed from the French “navet”= turnip. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/142 "2013-04-17T13:41:38Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > We should never have rebelled. ☹ Mid-twentieth century British cuisine doesn’t exactly have a stellar reputation either. > [@vontsira](#): > > I believe that the Scots word “neep” is actually borrowed from the French “navet”= turnip. Really? I thought it was just a simple contraction: tur-neeps! ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/143 "2013-04-17T14:04:16Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > I was raised on that glop and still get a nostalgic taste for a nice hot dish. I wasn’t raised on it, but every once in awhile I do get a taste for a nice casserole. My father used to make a nice mac & cheese one with Kraft, canned tuna, peas, and some other stuff. I loved the stuff as a kid, and I still love it as an adult, although it’s been years since I’ve had it. I’m actually quite fascinated by the myriad of these kinds of casseroles, and they’re great for when I don’t feel like expending too much effort cooking. I know my wife will love them at any time, I’m fond of them from time to time, they’re cheap, easy, and quick, and if you’re a decent cook, you can substitute in and out any fresh ingredients for canned ones as you like, but that kind of defeats 90% of the reason I like them. Plus I actually like those canned cream-of-whatever soups. My pantry usually has several different cans for such a reason. Plus, they may be loaded with chemicals, but they’re lighter on the calories than any cream soup I’d make. I can’t do the green bean casserole, though. That stuff is vile. And good call on Hershey’s. That chocolate can be quite polarizing for folks who didn’t grow up on it because it really does have that “vomit” taste to it. I didn’t notice it specifically as “vomit” (although it always was slightly sour to me) until maybe ten years ago. I don’t know why or how I missed it all my life, but one day as I was eating a bar, I really just started to pay attention and savor it. I thought, what’s that aftertaste? It’s kind of like bile or vomit or something. So I googled “Hershey’s chocolate vomit taste” or something like that. Sure enough, it’s apparently a very common thing. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/144 "2013-04-17T14:04:57Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I’ve actually gotten myself into an argument about casseroles of all things; something I actually have no strong feelings about one way or the other. 😛 > > To each his own. > > But lasagna? A casserole? :rolleyes: How about baked ziti, or chicago style pizza with multiple fillings, or various meat pies? Are they to be considered casseroles? I’ve been angry at casserole for a long time, I’m sorry that you touched on a sore spot for me 🙂 Yep, lasagna has all the qualities of a casserole that I don’t like. The last thing I want to eat is a piece of pasta that is leather on one end and borderline overdone at the other. Baked ziti has the same problem, but spread out between noodles. I’d really rather have some spaghetti. (Don’t tell my wife, she makes these dishes all the time). Chicago style pizza gets a pass because of the crust. Since it’s supposed to get more dry than the rest of the dish, it saves the day for me. Meat pies are usually meh, in my opinion, but that’s because american ones are usually the equivalent of chicken ala king in a pastry shell. > [@davidm](#): > > Not every casserole requires canned goods. My mother used to make a zucchini thing with some sort of cream sauce and crumb topping. It used fresh zucchini and homemade sauce, nothing from a can. > ETA: Found it: [http://www.familycookbookproject.com/view\_recipesite.asp?rid=2532762&uid=62251&sid=145540](http://www.familycookbookproject.com/view_recipesite.asp?rid=2532762&uid=62251&sid=145540) I appreciate that your mother would go to the trouble, but I don’t find that more appealing than any other casserole. No insult meant to your mother, I am an extremely finicky eater. > [@terentii](#): > > Casseroles, BTW, are a traditional part of French cooking (the word itself is French). They’re often considered “Peasant Food,” but peasants have always known how to eat. Of course they’re made with fresh ingredients, not canned. Fresh ingredients are always better. Canned goods merely represent convenience (and possibly nostalgia). > [@MrDibble](#): > > I take it here you mean strictly Midwestern-style casserole - that’s certainly not a description I’d use for cassoulet or tajine, for example. I’ve never had anything called cassoulet or tajine. If they have the qualities described above: I am sorry, but no thanks. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/145 "2013-04-17T14:23:44Z")
Thnext person who whines about casseroles will be forced - forced! - to eat some of my family’s broccoli casserole. When done right it’s crisp broccooli, a crumble topping, and loaded with cheddary goodness. We _will_ strap you down and force feed you. And you will thank us. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/146 "2013-04-17T14:33:58Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > I’ve never had anything called cassoulet or tajine. If they have the qualities described above: I am sorry, but no thanks. Cassoulet is fanstastic. The beans soak up the fatty deliciousness of the duck and pork. It is one of the most savory dishes I’ve ever had. ---
**Author:** ![vontsira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/51bf81/32.png) [@vontsira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vontsira)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/147 "2013-04-17T14:36:17Z")
(To – the Scots word “neep” being derived from the French “navet”.) > [@Acsenray](#): > > Really? I thought it was just a simple contraction: tur-neeps! You could be well be right: often, complicated and supposedly-learned explanations of words, are mistaken ! It’s just that the Scots and the French have a long-standing reputation for getting on well with each other (in the process of ganging up together, against the country in between). ---
**Author:** ![simple\_homer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@simple\_homer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simple_homer)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/148 "2013-04-17T15:06:18Z")
> [@Lukeinva](#): > > The Chinese don’t consume dairy… milk, cheese, butter, etc. > > For thousands of years, through evolution, has caused pretty much the entire population to be unable to process dairy products. Not true. I have spent the past four years in China, and all the large supermarkets have a large selection of milk, cheese, and yogurt. Milk and yogurt are so popular that they are found in almost all small convenience stores. Pizza Hut is a very popular restaurant in China . Many times there are lines of 20 or 30 people waiting to get in . [http://www.yum.com/brands/china.asp](http://www.yum.com/brands/china.asp) “Today, Pizza Hut is the number one casual dining brand in China with more than 800 restaurants in more than 200 cities. Pizza Hut Casual Dining has an extensive menu offering a broad variety of pizzas, entrees, pasta, rice dishes, appetizers, beverages and desserts.” ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/149 "2013-04-17T15:07:32Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > I’ve never had anything called cassoulet or tajine. If they have the qualities described above: I am sorry, but no thanks. [Cassoulet](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vsVYhJZGIrw/R1Bo7zwCkYI/AAAAAAAAG4c/BbeQ3TUvGVc/s1600-R/cassoulet.jpg) [Tajine](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_NR6_zRQIsuA/S853njx7lQI/AAAAAAAAAFA/x8yyEF865-c/s1600/BeefTagine.jpg) Neither of them has the qualities you mention. Both are casseroles. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/150 "2013-04-17T15:16:48Z")
> [@vontsira](#): > > (To – the Scots word “neep” being derived from the French “navet”.) > > You could be well be right: often, complicated and supposedly-learned explanations of words, are mistaken ! It’s just that the Scots and the French have a long-standing reputation for getting on well with each other (in the process of ganging up together, against the country in between). In case you’re wondering, [etymonline has this](http://etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=neep&searchmode=none): > [@](#): > > “a turnip,” Scottish and dialectal, from Middle English nepe, from Old English næp “turnip,” from Latin napus (see turnip). ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/151 "2013-04-17T15:21:19Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Yep, lasagna has all the qualities of a casserole that I don’t like. The last thing I want to eat is a piece of pasta that is leather on one end and borderline overdone at the other. Baked ziti has the same problem, but spread out between noodles. I’d really rather have some spaghetti. (Don’t tell my wife, she makes these dishes all the time). Once again, what you’re complaining about is something that wasn’t baked properly. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/152 "2013-04-17T15:22:44Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Thnext person who whines about casseroles will be forced - forced! - to eat some of my family’s broccoli casserole. When done right it’s crisp broccooli, a crumble topping, and loaded with cheddary goodness. We _will_ strap you down and force feed you. And you will thank us. Ok, let’s stop talking about casserole entirely, before things get out of hand. Casserole just ain’t worth it. (On the other hand, if you think you might make good on your threat: take a look at that usename. Are you really going to try to put something in my mouth so I can do something gross with it?) > [@drastic\_quench](#): > > Cassoulet is fanstastic. The beans soak up the fatty deliciousness of the duck and pork. It is one of the most savory dishes I’ve ever had. And moving on to the first foot, I’ve now taken the time to look up a recipe or two for cassoulet. That looks like it might be pretty tasty. The recipes all seem to have a good handle on cooking the separate ingredients before combining them for the final cook. I’d probably pull the crust off and feed it to the dog, though. That seems too much like home made mac 'n cheese (don’t ask, Mr. Bandit is probably getting testy). ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/153 "2013-04-17T15:25:38Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I’ve eaten it when it was made by that recipe and wasn’t crazy about it. The recipe that’s been passed down in my family for at least a couple of generations uses french cut green beans and real onion rings rather than those dried crunchy things. That’s the only way I ever knew it until I saw other people following your recipe. I think Campbells must have an interest in French’s fried onions so their marketing department put out this abomination of a recipe. I have no idea why they don’t specify the french cut beans but it makes a bigger difference than you’d think. Since Campbell’s is the one that originally came up with the recipe, I’d say theirs in the most ‘accurate’. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/154 "2013-04-17T15:39:08Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > [Cassoulet](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vsVYhJZGIrw/R1Bo7zwCkYI/AAAAAAAAG4c/BbeQ3TUvGVc/s1600-R/cassoulet.jpg) > [Tajine](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_NR6_zRQIsuA/S853njx7lQI/AAAAAAAAAFA/x8yyEF865-c/s1600/BeefTagine.jpg) > Neither of them has the qualities you mention. Both are casseroles. Well, they appear to have nothing to do with the American casseroles other than being cooked in a dish in an oven. If a clay pot in an oven is all it takes to make a dish a casserole to you, we have been betrayed by our common language. The items in these dishes are added progressively, and partially (not fully) cooked separately. In the tajine recipes I’ve seen, you’re taking the items out of the pot during some steps, and then removing it all, making a sauce, then putting it all back together again. This is very far removed from my idea of “casserole”. > [@davidm](#): > > Once again, what you’re complaining about is something that wasn’t baked properly. Well, every edge piece of lasagna I’ve ever eaten matches that description. If you can link to a recipe that explains how to avoid it, I would appreciate it. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/155 "2013-04-17T15:43:48Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Well, every edge piece of lasagna I’ve ever eaten matches that description. If you can link to a recipe that explains how to avoid it, I would appreciate it. Well, I expect that covering it with foil would work, but that would be kind of blasphemy (and if you have cheese on top, you won’t get the nice browning). The edges are the best part! They even have pans [to maximize edges](http://www.chefsresource.com/bakers-edge-lasagna-pan.html). But with lasagna, it works out fine. You just take an interior piece, and let the normal folk fight for the edges. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/156 "2013-04-17T15:50:41Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > But lasagna? A casserole? :rolleyes: How about baked ziti, or chicago style pizza with multiple fillings, or various meat pies? Are they to be considered casseroles? Lasagna, and some of these ither things, seems to me to have too much structure to be of a piece with what I know as casserole (which might have a “top,” but is otherwise all-mixed-up). Baked ziti could be called a casserole, though. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/157 "2013-04-17T15:55:06Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Well, I expect that covering it with foil would work, but that would be kind of blasphemy (and if you have cheese on top, you won’t get the nice browning). The edges are the best part! They even have pans [to maximize edges](http://www.chefsresource.com/bakers-edge-lasagna-pan.html). But with lasagna, it works out fine. You just take an interior piece, and let the normal folk fight for the edges. 😉 See! that pan implies that edge business is integral to the design of the dish! Why else invent new tech to maximize it? ( I had seen that pan before, and felt a kind of horror.) Ok, really, I’ll stop with casserole bashing. This thread is for other cultures to complain about our food, anyway. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/158 "2013-04-17T15:57:04Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Lasagna, and some of these ither things, seems to me to have too much structure to be of a piece with what I know as casserole (which might have a “top,” but is otherwise all-mixed-up). > > Baked ziti could be called a casserole, though. I disagree. There’s a whole subcategory of casseroles called “layered casseroles,” so I disagree it all has to be mixed together. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/159 "2013-04-17T16:15:04Z")
The original meaning of “casserole” is a type of baking dish. It was extended to mean something that is typically baked in such a dish. Although there have been many casserole recipes that consist of a bunch of canned goods stirred together, there is nothing that requires it to be such. Lasagna is typically made in a wide, flat, rectangular pan. A casserole dish is usually deep and rounded. So while lasagna is similar to many casseroles, I wouldn’t classify it as one. ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812/160 "2013-04-17T16:17:04Z")
Four pages and I haven’t seen a mention of mashed potatoes and marshmallows, or whatever it is. I’ve never had it and I absolutely would try it. But it sounds… like the worst possible idea for food. And now I am craving haggis so much I could cry. And this stupid country has no proper food at all, let alone a way of satisfying my haggis craving. ☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-american-cuisine/655812.md?page=9)