# Ugly duckling movie cliche that bothers me **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 25, 2005, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-duckling-movie-cliche-that-bothers-me/337145 "2005-12-25T07:12:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dan\_Norder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@Dan\_Norder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dan_Norder)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-duckling-movie-cliche-that-bothers-me/337145/41 "2005-12-29T23:22:42Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > Yeah, I disagree. The “awkward guy with genuine love” more times than not doesn’t know what love is. Certainly moreso than the asshole guy, and definitely more than you do. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-duckling-movie-cliche-that-bothers-me/337145/42 "2005-12-30T21:16:27Z")
::: Moderator growls ::: **Dan** , personal insults are not permitted in this forum. You will kindly use a less snarky tone in future, right? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-duckling-movie-cliche-that-bothers-me/337145/43 "2005-12-30T21:28:55Z")
I’d kinda like to see the plot twist where the nice girl flashes her breasts at the asshole-horndog character (the plan being to distract him into an ambush, or into getting lost and being left alone in the desert in only his underwear or some other convoluted scheme to temporarily get him out of the way) and have this occur: Asshole-Horndog: Wow, you’re really hot. How about we hook up next Friday? Right now I have to study for midterms. Nice Girl: What? _You_ want to _study?!_ AH: Well, yeah. I have _some_ of my priorities straight. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2005, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-duckling-movie-cliche-that-bothers-me/337145/44 "2005-12-31T02:38:01Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > Does it help confirm the absurdity of the plot device, or is it just me, that I think a lot of the ugly ducklings _look_ better WHILE they’re in “mousy” mode? Yeah, I think the glasses=ugly stereotype should have disappeared along with horn-rimmed glasses, which likely inspired the stereotype. Did those things ever look good on anybody? Anyway, this whole discussion reminds me of why I liked _Some Kind of Wonderful_ so much. ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2005, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-duckling-movie-cliche-that-bothers-me/337145/45 "2005-12-31T04:02:30Z")
In **That Touch Of Mink** Gig Young turns to his bunned, bespeckled secretary and says “Do me a favor, please take off your glasses and let down your hair” - she does, and her hair is stringy and frizzy, and she squints because here eyesight is so poor. I loved that scene. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2005, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-duckling-movie-cliche-that-bothers-me/337145/46 "2005-12-31T08:04:27Z")
> [@anyrose](#): > > In **That Touch Of Mink** Gig Young turns to his bunned, bespeckled secretary and says “Do me a favor, please take off your glasses and let down your hair” - she does, and her hair is stringy and frizzy, and she squints because here eyesight is so poor. I loved that scene. It was parodied in a scene in _Arrested Development_, where GOB tries to psyche himself up into sleeping with Kitty, his father’s secretary and longtime mistress. After trying various combinations of hair up/down, glasses on/off, he finally tumbles onto the important element; lights off. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2005, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-duckling-movie-cliche-that-bothers-me/337145/47 "2005-12-31T08:54:20Z")
> [@anyrose](#): > > In **That Touch Of Mink** Gig Young turns to his bunned, bespeckled secretary and says “Do me a favor, please take off your glasses and let down your hair” - she does, and her hair is stringy and frizzy, and she squints because here eyesight is so poor. I loved that scene. There was an issue of FHM where they had a pictorial with Alyson Hannigan and Charisma Carpender (of Buffy fame), along with a smaller feature with Julie Benz (She played a vampire villianess from the same series), and in the introduction to the feature, they mention the girl in glasses phenomenon in movies, then go on to say “Then when you try it in real life, you just end up with a homely girl who can’t see.” It sounds kinda asshole, but it was funny after the two or three paragraphs of buildup. It was followed immediately after by the definitely NOT homely Alyson in various kinds of lingere. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2005, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-duckling-movie-cliche-that-bothers-me/337145/48 "2005-12-31T09:15:17Z")
> [@Phase42](#): > > Yeah, I think the glasses=ugly stereotype should have disappeared along with horn-rimmed glasses, which likely inspired the stereotype. Did those things ever look good on anybody? Didn’t Elvis Costello popularize the geek glasses look? I remember when I first joined the military they’d issue the Elvis Costello type glasses, but shorty after that they started to look kinda trendy so of course the military had to “update” their standard issue glasses to these really, _really_ ugly brown things, guaranteed to never get trendy. ---
**Author:** ![cactus\_waltz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@cactus\_waltz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cactus_waltz)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2005, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-duckling-movie-cliche-that-bothers-me/337145/49 "2005-12-31T15:30:34Z")
As for me, I think most the movie directions for these movies fail with the personality and charisma of the ugly ducklings pre-transformation. Julia Stiles in “10 things I hate about you” was known at her school as _the_ bitch, but I only experienced a witty girl with good a sense for cynical sarcasm and an intelligence above average who is an independent thinker and knows how to stand up for herself. Yow, what a bitch. :rolleyes: In my crew, she would be pretty damn popular. Rachel Leigh Cook in “She’s all that” was pretty unlikable from the start. Quasi-intelligent elitist with uninspired interests was all I saw in her character. She came across as more true to herself after trasnformation, if you ask me. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2005, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-duckling-movie-cliche-that-bothers-me/337145/50 "2005-12-31T15:45:52Z")
> [@](#): > > **Ranchoth** > > Does it help confirm the absurdity of the plot device, or is it just me, that I think a lot of the ugly ducklings look better WHILE they’re in “mousy” mode? I agree. I adore cute mousy girls. Especially with glasses. … If there are any geeky and/or mousy Doper lasses, give me a ring. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Civil\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d78d45/32.png) [@Civil\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Civil_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2006, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-duckling-movie-cliche-that-bothers-me/337145/51 "2006-01-01T02:53:18Z")
I thought “The Mask” with John Carrey had a fairly cute reversal on this. This isn’t really worth the trouble of a spoiler box… but oh heck… The romance plot is that he finds himself attracted to the seriously cute femme, but it looks like she’s forgotten about him as soon as he gets into trouble. He then gets help from the plainer girl, and it looks like he’ll wind up with the beautiful-inside girl – but she betrays him after all, and the beautiful worman comes out of nowhere to rescue him, so he winds up with the really beautiful one. That said, right, I agree with the many here who are annoyed with the idea in the movies that the only ones worth “winning” are the beautiful people. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2006, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-duckling-movie-cliche-that-bothers-me/337145/52 "2006-01-01T16:54:09Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > That’s what drove me crazy about Ghost World. For those that don’t quiote remember: > > **Thora Birch** is some plain jane outsider who spends the whole movie wallowing in the fact that she will never be noticed by the “popular/beautiful” people. > > Her second banana best friend is of course played by **Scarlett Johannsen** , that venerable character actress who is never known for playing beautiful people. 😉 > > While it was well acted and great, in real life these two wouldn’t be ignored by the world at large by the “popular/beautiful” crowd because the “popular/beautiful” would worship them as gods. It’s been awhile since I’ve seen this movie, but I didn’t think that was the point at all. IIRC, it wasn’t that they were upset that no one would notice them, it was that they felt that everyone else was vapid and not worth knowing, so they spent all their time mocking everyone else. A lot of the conflict came in when Thora Birch’s character was upset that Scarlett Johannsen’s character was making friends with other people that they had previously thought worthless. Thora Birch became miserable because she had devoted so much effort to loathing everyone that she had essentially isolated herself. I thought it was an extremely accurate portrayal of a certain subset of teenagers. The Thora Birch character reminded me unpleasantly of my younger sister (who was, I think, 19 when I saw the movie; she’s 21 now and not noticeably any nicer to be around). One of the “good movies I never want to see again”. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2006, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-duckling-movie-cliche-that-bothers-me/337145/53 "2006-01-01T18:58:24Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > I agree. I adore cute mousy girls. Especially with glasses. > … > If there are any geeky and/or mousy Doper lasses, give me a ring. 🆒 LOL… is there an appropriate board on the SDMB for personal adds? MPIMS? Cafe Society? IMHO? I suppose such a post might actually be appropriate for GQ… 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2006, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-duckling-movie-cliche-that-bothers-me/337145/54 "2006-01-01T20:34:09Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Didn’t Elvis Costello popularize the geek glasses look? E.C. was only paying homage to Buddy Holly who was wearing what we often called military issued “birth control glasses” decades before. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2006, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-duckling-movie-cliche-that-bothers-me/337145/55 "2006-01-01T20:37:24Z")
> [@Padeye](#): > > E.C. was only paying homage to Buddy Holly who was wearing what we often called military issued “birth control glasses” decades before. Drew Carey wore the same specs. In the later seasons of his show, you see him breaking the glass of the Buddy Holly display at the R&RHOF and taking his glasses. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-duckling-movie-cliche-that-bothers-me/337145.md?page=2)