# Ugly music... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 28, 2014, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-music/702799 "2014-10-28T22:16:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-music/702799/21 "2014-10-29T04:46:53Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Sometimes you want ugly. I find this assertion hard to believe. ---
**Author:** ![yawuntz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a5b964/32.png) [@yawuntz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yawuntz)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-music/702799/22 "2014-10-29T05:08:56Z")
Well this is ugly enough. But is it music? Not sure. [Patty Waters](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NSBVjRxgF4) ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-music/702799/23 "2014-10-29T05:18:09Z")
> [@Helena330](#): > > Apparently they’re a big deal in the metal world, but Gwar’s cover of the Pet shop Boys _West End Girls_ is horrendous. I’d heard it just today (the original) and trending on Facebook was that this band Gwar had done a cover. So I checked it out. I wish I could un-listen and un-see. > > [http://www.spin.com/articles/gwar-pet-shop-boys-cover-west-end-girls/](http://www.spin.com/articles/gwar-pet-shop-boys-cover-west-end-girls/) My SO told me that Gwar is frequently featured on Beavis & Butthead, but he didn’t realize it was a real band. That explains a lot, except for how my SO knows this. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-music/702799/24 "2014-10-29T05:22:39Z")
> [@Infovore](#): > > My choice would be the completely nonmelodic, screamy, Cookie-Monster-vocalized end of the death metal spectrum. I was coming to cafe society to make a post asking why anyone listens to this shit, and I’m not trying to sound like some old man bitching about today’s music. But this howling Cookie Monster on meth vocals, with guitar being played as mathematically fast as possible is actually unmusical. Some is so extreme it is vocals deep throated primal screamed, totally unintelligible. The guitar is simply pounding sounding like a machine gun, there is no way to understand the lyrics and it is totally without cord change or rhythm or anything usually resembling music. I don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-music/702799/25 "2014-10-29T06:01:28Z")
I have not only seen GWAR multiple times, I successfully partied with them at Dragoncon in Atlanta back in 1995. They were chasing each other down, in full costume, throughout the hotel and killing each other. The hotel had to clean up a lot of fake blood after that weekend. Seriously, almost everything listed here is a part of my collection, from Peter Brötzmann’s _Machine Gun_ to various Merzbow albums (and NULL and Boredoms and a host of other Japanese bands) to my collection of Phillips Glass albums, Lou Reed’s _Metal Machine Music_ that I had to special order from Germany on CD back in the mid-80s, etc. The Residents UFOmammut (currently one of my favorites) Guapo Jandek The Faceless Nurse With Wound Iwrestledabearonce Gigan Rings of Saturn Trigger The Bloodshed Grumbling Fur Chelsea Smile Iron Monkey Suicide Silence Magrudergrind Minsk Rwake Pig Destroyer Serpentine Path Nails Watchmaker Tombs Tobacco Aphex Twin (new album out today; it totally fucking rocks) Swans Sunn O))) Throbbing Gristle Lantlôs The Locust Last Exit Anal Cunt I can go on and on and on. Someone upthread described Slayer and Lamb of God as “completely nonmelodic, screamy, Cookie-Monster-vocalized end of the death metal spectrum” and I understand how someone without any education in the finer points of metal could think that was the case, but it’s not. Slayer is a thrash band and has excellent melodies in both the vocals and the guitar parts. Where they sound wicked and wild is that their solos are for the most part atonal. Lamb of God has changed a lot from their awesome grind/death days, but if you want to limit your description of them to their original incarnation as Burn The Priest or to their first LoG album, _New American Gospel_, I could hang with ya on that. BUT if you want to really hear some stuff that fits your description, a few I listed up there would fit the bill, like Suicide Silence or Trigger The Bloodshed. You could also check out Job For A Cowboy or Gigan or Rings of Saturn. I’ve long thought that the guys in Behold… The Arctopus were very talented musicians who had no clue what music was supposed to sound like. **thelurkinghorror** , I don’t have any of those albums but I do have [an album that’s a 1 hour recording made inside a pachinko parlor](http://www.discogs.com/Blue-Rahn-Studio-Pachinko-In-Your-Head/release/1686590). 😛 I bought two copies. Anyway, for nearly as long as I can remember I’ve liked lots of stuff as music that seems to make other people want to do _nothing_ more than turn it off. As I said, I’m happy to make recommendations or answer questions. I’m short on time, but if allow want to do here is link to songs, I’ll try and find time tomorrow evening to do that. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-music/702799/26 "2014-10-29T06:07:44Z")
Missed the edit window: A long time ago, Neil Young released a double CD album called _Arc/Weld_. The _Weld_ CD was live recording of him and Crazy Horse performing stuff from his previous 2 albums, _Freedom_ and _Ragged Glory_. The _Arc_ CD was a 35 minute sound collage of squealing feedback made from the same live recordings. I bought this for my GF back when it was released. When we broke up, guess which CD I took with me? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-music/702799/27 "2014-10-29T07:20:02Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Anyway, for nearly as long as I can remember I’ve liked lots of stuff as music that seems to make other people want to do _nothing_ more than turn it off. I’m trying to put this into food terms, but it is like saying you like a plate of broken glass that everyone else refuses to eat. And I’m not trying to be superior or condescending or anything like that.😛 WHY do you like a piece of music other people want to do nothing more than turn off? Do you like it for the music itself, the novelty, the reaction of others? ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-music/702799/28 "2014-10-29T07:38:50Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Captain Beefheart. It’s great music, but it _is_ ugly. I was going to say this! “Steal Softly Thru Snow” exemplifies ugly beauty (as Thelonius Monk would say). ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-music/702799/29 "2014-10-29T07:43:22Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > I was going to say this! “Steal Softly Thru Snow” exemplifies ugly beauty (as Thelonius Monk would say). Captain Beefheart might as well be mainstream pop compared to some of the most extreme examples posted here.😛 ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-music/702799/30 "2014-10-29T08:04:39Z")
PDQ Bach: [“Art of the ground round,”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkjR3cdXSS8) to pick a piece at random. I was hoping to find the overture for _Hansel and Gretel and Ted and Alice_, or the Concerto for Horn and Hardart (yes, a vending machine is used as a musical instrument), but no such luck. Or, if you want a serious contender, Stravinsky’s _[The Rite of Spring](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq1q6u3mLSM)_. The first time it was performed, the audience attacked the stage to stop it. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-music/702799/31 "2014-10-29T12:46:31Z")
Just a quibble—it seems that [Penderecki only named and dedicated the work](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threnody_to_the_Victims_of_Hiroshima)_after_ writing and performing it. But, since he and Diamanda Galas have already gotten their noms, may I suggest…[Stalaggh](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br5tyuEUBWE) and [Gulaagh](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-N9flAxrW4)? They use the remixed screams and howls of genuine mental patients…and little else to corrupt the sound! ---
**Author:** ![Art\_Rock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/art_rock/32/525_2.png) [@Art\_Rock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Art_Rock)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-music/702799/32 "2014-10-29T13:22:15Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > I don’t think ugly music has to mean bad music, or that bad music is necessarily ugly. Sometimes you want ugly. If some of the examples thrown around in the thread are seen as ugly, in particular Penderecki and Stravinsky, then yes, I WANT ugly music. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-music/702799/33 "2014-10-29T13:22:40Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > may I suggest…[Stalaggh](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br5tyuEUBWE) and [Gulaagh](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-N9flAxrW4)? They use the remixed screams and howls of genuine mental patients…and little else to corrupt the sound! Wow. That takes Art Garfunkel’s [Voices of Old People](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrzOwPdijxQ) to a whole new level. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-music/702799/34 "2014-10-29T13:48:53Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > Just a quibble—it seems that [Penderecki only named and dedicated the work](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threnody_to_the_Victims_of_Hiroshima)_after_ writing and performing it. I hear you, but if he sat back and listened to it and thought “hmm, that sounds like skin crisping off bodies - what would be a good name for that?” then it’s fine 😉 and yes, **Bo** - your deep interest in “ugly music” is a bit curious… ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-music/702799/35 "2014-10-29T13:50:29Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Captain Beefheart might as well be mainstream pop compared to some of the most extreme examples posted here.😛 True, at least it’s a got a beat – you can dance to it. Especially if you suffer from [muscle twitching](http://www.healthline.com/symptom/muscle-twitch). ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-music/702799/36 "2014-10-29T13:53:01Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > and yes, **Bo** - your deep interest in “ugly music” is a bit curious… I think it’s great. Far too much focus on the beautiful in this world. Buddhists recommend contemplating the decaying, the dead, and the ugly. Helps keep you attuned to “reality,” and to appreciate beauty for what it is (with healthy detachment). ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-music/702799/37 "2014-10-29T14:13:14Z")
As I absorb the nice array of examples here, (thanks, by the way!), I’m thinking a more appropriate term than “ugly” might be “unpleasant” but even that has an appeal of sorts to “beauty” and “pleasantness” that falls in the realms of personal taste. I just know there are categories of music that I stay clear of because they hurt my ears. But one person’s ugly can be another’s version of the sublime. As Louis Armstrong, perhaps most jazz historians’ example of The Jazz Icon, once said of the Bebop movement of Gillespie, Parker, et al, [[Bebop is] Chinese music](http://jazz-quotes.com/artist/louis-armstrong/), so “even the great Homer nods” (if you want to mix and match quotations. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-music/702799/38 "2014-10-29T14:27:24Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > I think it’s great. Far too much focus on the beautiful in this world. Buddhists recommend contemplating the decaying, the dead, and the ugly. Helps keep you attuned to “reality,” and to appreciate beauty for what it is (with healthy detachment). Of course! Please don’t hear anything negative in my word choice. I am pretty sure **Bo** knows I always enjoy his thoughts and input on music threads. I just find the huge focus interesting and worthy of a bit of context if Bo wants to provide it… ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-music/702799/39 "2014-10-29T14:39:39Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Of course! Please don’t hear anything negative in my word choice. I am pretty sure **Bo** knows I always enjoy his thoughts and input on music threads. I just find the huge focus interesting and worthy of a bit of context if Bo wants to provide it… 🙂 Must…not…make…lame…joke…about…throwing…ugly…stuff…into…ugly…gash…in…the…landscape… ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-music/702799/40 "2014-10-29T14:52:52Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > 🙂 Must…not…make…lame…joke…about…throwing…ugly…stuff…into…ugly…gash…in…the…landscape… 'Twould be yet another can of worms, I’d venture. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-music/702799.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ugly-music/702799.md?page=3)