# Uh, I'll use "u" if I damned well please. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 21, 2004, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396 "2004-02-21T18:33:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2004, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/41 "2004-02-21T19:50:25Z")
> [@Civil Defense](#): > > Maybe I wasn’t clear in my OP. I wasn’t telling you not to reply, I was just warning you that your disliking of my usage wasn’t going to change the fact that I will use it, if I feel like it. Your attacks of my intelligence fall on deaf ears, on this end. Sorry. > [@erislover](#): > > It’s a stupid fucking OP that offers the hypothesis that people shouldn’t care about “u” because we r smart enough 2 form the association. And it’s a naive individual that expects 2 b tolerated just because he is not forbidden from performing the activity. Maybe that’ll help. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![FilmGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@FilmGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FilmGeek)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2004, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/42 "2004-02-21T19:51:52Z")
Pats **Ilsa** and **Diogenes** on the back. Thanks. > [@ParentalAdvisory](#): > > Whoa, are you suggesting that we translate every post from english into other languages because the non-english speaking people might not understand it? > ¿Whoa, usted sugiere que traducimos cada poste del inglés en otros idiomas porque las personas parlantes no-ingleses no lo quizás entienda? I didn’t interpret Fish’s comment as anything but a suggestion that seeing “u” instead of “you” for someone that doesn’t speak the language natively can form a considerable barrier. Also, a suggestion that Civil Defense doesn’t care one whit whether he’s really communicating. He cares only that his way is right and if [petulant 8 year old]you don’t like it don’t play with me anymore[/petulant 8 year old]. If someone posted in say, Cockney rhyming slang (is that what it’s called?) I’d be completely lost though all the words are in English and I’m a native speaker. ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2004, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/43 "2004-02-21T19:53:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Because if you’re going to take someone’s poor spelling or grammar (or even their apt shorthand) to be an indication of their intelligence, then you’re the ignorant one. Oh brother. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2004, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/44 "2004-02-21T19:54:01Z")
> [@Civil Defense](#): > > In any case, the people who are likely to get pissed off if I feel like typing the equally-understood “u” are those who I wouldn’t really want to waste time communicating with, anyway, namely SUTA condescending pricks.\* > > \*yes, yes, irony. Then why do you keep responding to them? “U” just looks sloppy. You claim that it shouldn’t invalidate whatever you have to say; however, it really does. Yes, most people will understand what you’re trying to say, but in my opinion it seems as though, no matter how good an argument you put forth, the fact that you are not willing to articulate it with full spelling and/or punctuation makes it more difficult to read and just lazy-looking. Why should I bother to listen to someone who is too lazy to bother tying two letters? Maybe their brain is just as lazy as their fingers. Also, it makes your post look like someone’s cutesy license plate. “IBRK4U” ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2004, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/45 "2004-02-21T19:59:10Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > One of the attractions of this board is that it remains largely free of internet shorthand, fucking “Leetspeak” and the like. Atrocities like “ur” degrade the dialogue and are irritating to interpret. I don’t give enough of a fuck to devote even a fraction of a second to trying to decipher your adolescent shorthand. Save it for passing notes in your eighth grade social studies class. If you can’t fucking spell the word “you,” then why the fuck should anyone take you seriously in anything else you say? I don’t think he’s trying to condone leetspeak, I think what he’s trying to say is that that ‘u’ and ‘ur’ isn’t much different then ‘LOL’, ‘WTF?’, ‘LMFAO’, ‘IANAxxxx’, ‘IMO’, and many, many more which are not criticized on this board. To be honest, when I first discovered message boards, I had no fucking clue as to what that shit meant and thought it was just a bunch of fucking kids being post whores. This is not true, many adults use these abbreviations, and yes, on these very boards. And that’s all that ‘u’ and ‘ur’ is, abbreviations. It is no where near leetspeak. Leetspeak is a continuous run on of abbreviations consisting of letters and numbers mixed together. Seriously though, would you really discredit someone based on a ‘u’ abbreviation? You probably wouldn’t for a ‘LOL’, or would u? ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2004, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/46 "2004-02-21T20:02:35Z")
**Civil Defense** , I’ve a question for you. Do you speak to your mother, your boss, and your best friend the exact same way? While people don’t make a big deal of it in American English, the way you speak or write to a person conveys your opinion of them and even a level of formality. Tonight I’ll be at a gathering of friends. I’ll make double and triple entendres, not to mention flirtatious remarks of all stripes. I would not make such remarks in front of my boss, and there’s no _way_ I’d make them in front of my mother! Before I described myself as pissed, I’d be aware of whether I was speaking to my American friends or my English relatives, and, if the latter, which generation the relatives were from. So it is with “u” instead of “you”. I could greet an old friend of mine with “Hey creep!”, “Hey homey!” or “Hey lady!” and get three different reactions. Since I’ve never said “Homey”, she’d wonder if I was temporarily deranged if I used the second one. If I used the first one in private, it’d be calling back some old high school memories; if I used it in public, she’d be, well, pissed in the American sense! The third example is relatively safe in any context. When I see someone type “u”, my personal, idiosyncratic response is to write them off as too concerned with being hip and “kewl” to have much depth, to have more style than substance as it were. Presenting oneself that way on this board is like wearing jeans to a formal ball. It may be more you; it may even be more practical; it will also be seen by the other guests as less respectful and lower their opinion of you. In my case, I’d consider that fair because your dress might indicate you have a lower opinion of me. Does this make sense to u, you, thee, or whatever term thou wishest to use? CJ ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2004, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/47 "2004-02-21T20:04:48Z")
Certainly, you’re free to use these adolescent shorthands to save the precious milliseconds it takes to type those two extra letters. Similarly, I am free to feel that doing so makes you look like a damn moron. I am also free to mock you if I wish, in the correct forum. ---
**Author:** ![Civil\_Defense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Civil\_Defense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Civil_Defense)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2004, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/48 "2004-02-21T20:06:14Z")
> [@FilmGeek](#): > > He cares only that his way is right and if [petulant 8 year old]you don’t like it don’t play with me anymore[/petulant 8 year old]. I am communicating. You understand what I’m typing, and you’re replying. Are we not playing the same game? You’re suggesting that your way is the only way that can possibly be “right” in terms of effective communication. You’ve shown this to be incorrect, yourself, by interpreting “u” to be “you” on a level of meaning. You’ve said that if I don’t play your way, then you’ll ignore my posts. Sounds about the same. > [@Ilsa\_Lund](#): > > Oh brother. What, you want an example? Alright. In my last job alone, we frequently communicated with the managers via e-mail. Ignoring the fact that they, alone, used “u” and “r” frequently in memos to us, a quick archived e-mail search brings up a letter from the corporate VP, a man who got where he is today surely with the help of some intelligence, to our store’s staff with the following line: u guys are doing great!!! Wow, thanks for pointing out that an executive of a nationwide corporation hasn’t enough intelligence to even be worthy of an SDMB post. > [@overlyverbose](#): > > Then why do you keep responding to them? Because I suppose I opened the can of worms, myself, with this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Civil\_Defense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Civil\_Defense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Civil_Defense)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2004, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/49 "2004-02-21T20:13:40Z")
> [@Civil Defense](#): > > Wow, thanks for pointing out that an executive of a nationwide corporation hasn’t enough intelligence to even be worthy of an SDMB post. In a reply to myself, I’ll go ahead and point out that I didn’t mean to equate business position with intelligence; rather, with respect. ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2004, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/50 "2004-02-21T20:14:50Z")
I hereby award **Civil Defense** the “ **Ilsa\_Lund** Award For Dumbshit of the Year.” ---
**Author:** ![Civil\_Defense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Civil\_Defense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Civil_Defense)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2004, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/51 "2004-02-21T20:15:23Z")
> [@Ilsa\_Lund](#): > > I hereby award **Civil Defense** the “ **Ilsa\_Lund** Award For Dumbshit of the Year.” Given the source of the award, I graciously accept. ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2004, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/52 "2004-02-21T20:16:09Z")
> [@FilmGeek](#): > > I didn’t interpret Fish’s comment as anything but a suggestion that seeing “u” instead of “you” for someone that doesn’t speak the language natively can form a considerable barrier. I understand now, but with that logic, all this crap goes with it then: LOL WTF? LMAF IANAxxxxx IMHO These are all abbreviations that could cause a barrier for non-english speaking readers, as they are english abbreviations. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2004, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/53 "2004-02-21T20:29:40Z")
I don’t think using the occasional ‘u’ for ‘you’ indicates lack of intelligence, nor do I think that most people can’t figure out what it is supposed to mean or stand for. However, I wonder how much time is saved when you condense really short words (like be, to, for, etc.) down into one short letter or number (B, 2, 4) when one has to go back and defend, explain, or whatever, the practice. Also, I’ve never understood how someone (generally speaking) can stay with something after difficulties have been pointed out. For example; with non-native English speakers, those who have a heard time reading non-capitalized sentences, and people who write in one enormous paragraph or double-space every line of text. Once a suggestion is offered for improvement, why wouldn’t that be taken if at all possible? Isn’t that the quest of most folk’s lives, to be the best they can be at stuff? Lastly, if a person goes as far as saying they’re just too lazy to care, then what difference does any of this make? They shouldn’t be concerned if no one reads or responds to their postings if they put little thought into it to begin with. At least, that’s what I would feel like if I didn’t really want to put my best attitude forward in the first place. But maybe that’s just me and I _am_ one of those people who’ll read a post regardless of how it is written because I’m curious to see what it says about the situation. It doesn’t make it any more pleasant though. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2004, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/54 "2004-02-21T20:33:20Z")
We are known by the company we keep and the jargon we use. In some circles, L33tspeak is expected. To spell words otherwise makes the speaker an outcast, or at least a stand-out. SDMB’s jargon, perhaps because the level of education is higher than elsewhere, tends towards the less-esoteric, less-abbreviated forms of written English. Nevertheless, this is not a purist stance, as I think most will agree that some common Internet abbreviations are readily accepted: IMHO, BTW, FYI, IANAL, “hi, Opal,” “bring pie,” 🙂 and 😉 . But, by SDMB standards, excessive use of abbreviations like “u” for “you” brand the speaker an outcast. Hardly a bannable offense, but YMMV. If you wish to use this kind of jargon, just be aware of the impression you are making. Is it the one you want? Do you want to fit in or stand out? Will an apparently uneducated stance enhance your argument if you are participating in a Great Debate (GD)? ---
**Author:** ![elfbabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b782af/32.png) [@elfbabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfbabe)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2004, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/55 "2004-02-21T20:34:55Z")
Whenever I see “ur” used for your or you’re, I always think of Ur. You know, that ancient city in Mesopotamia? But then, I am one of those people whose text messages use correct spelling and grammar most of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Garnet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de0a6/32.png) [@Garnet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garnet)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2004, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/56 "2004-02-21T20:40:38Z")
> [@ParentalAdvisory](#): > > I understand now, but with that logic, all this crap goes with it then: > LOL > WTF? > LMAF > IANAxxxxx > IMHO > These are all abbreviations that could cause a barrier for non-english speaking readers, as they are english abbreviations. That’s not really the same thing. The problem with things like “u” is that it requires the non-English-speaker to know how English-speakers say the alphabet, which is a bit more esoteric than the concept of an acronym. I’ve been on the receiving end of this too; I was speaking French to someone online once, and he kept using the abbreviation “c”. I guess silly abbreviations aren’t just restricted to English. I was totally confused by this; I read it and thought of the pronunciation “see” as in English. That would probably correspond to the word “si” in French, which didn’t really make much sense. Then later I finally realized, you have to read “c” as the French do, pronounced “say”, and it was an abbreviation for “c’est”. I think you’ll agree that that was unnecessarily confusing. (and yes, the other person did know I wasn’t a native speaker) ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2004, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/57 "2004-02-21T20:45:21Z")
> [@ParentalAdvisory](#): > > Whoa, are you suggesting that we translate every post from english into other languages because the non-english speaking people might not understand it? I think you _reducto_’d too far _ad absurdum._ As you now may know, I suggested no such thing. The letter “u” in the English alphabet is sounded “yooo.” In German, “oooo.” Why should a native German speaker assume that the individual letters “u” or “r” or “m” have any meaning whatsoever, especially a meaning based on sound? Or did it never occur to you that there are people who can _read and write_ a language without being able to sound it out? Eu v. I _am_ suggesting that we use proper English forms because people _do_ learn languages by observing native speakers. For what it’s worth (_not_ FWIW), I use Internet slangspeak as little as possible, so save your sanctimonious attitude for someone else. I don’t LOL while I’m AFK, and if I have to BRB in JAS I say so; if I’m confused I don’t say WTH or WTF or ask for a SWAG WRT whatever made me JTT, THX for YHO, YMMV, TTFN. I don’t use 'em. On these boards I use only the local lingo **IANAD** , **OP** , the forum titles, and SDMB, and if anyone asks I will be happy to explain them. _Rarely_ will I abbreviate the name of a movie to its pertinent initials. I agree with you, **Parental Advisory** , that these do inhibit good communication when the acronym or abbreviation is not instantly known. I am also suggesting to **Civil Defense** (again, see previous posts) that I will interpret his subpar communication skills as either an indication that he doesn’t _know_ the difference or he _doesn’t care_ to make the distinction. Why should I care if he wants to look like a drooling moron? I’ll afford him every ounce of respect that he earns. And no, I wouldn’t respect the VP of a corporation who couldn’t put together a real English sentence. What’d he do, _borrow_ his MBA? Bottom line: if it’s worth communicating, it’s worth communicating _well._ ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2004, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/58 "2004-02-21T20:46:21Z")
> [@Civil Defense](#): > > Because if you’re going to take someone’s poor spelling or grammar (or even their apt shorthand) to be an indication of their intelligence, then you’re the ignorant one. Oh, Christ. Come _on_. This is a message board. We can only learn about you from what you type. I will not say that using “u” makes you unintelligent, but guess what? If I go into Great Debates and the OP is: “I don’t understand why u r all so in favor of gay marriage!” Yes, I will think the person is a fool or at least not very eloquent. If you are posting in a written forum, and trying to present yourself in an intelligent way, why on earth would you use shorthand that does (like it or not) present you as an adolescent idiot? If you got two resumes and people were equally qualified, but one cover letter said: “Please let me know if u have any openings! I am really looking forward to working with u!” I’m pretty sure that would take the cake for me. This is a message board that is a forum for people who don’t find it difficult to spell words like “you” instead of “u”, or “through” instead of “thru”. Yes, I understand what you’re saying. I understand a toddler crying “WANT BOTTLE!!” but that doesn’t make it language that I respect. ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2004, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/59 "2004-02-21T20:48:45Z")
The level of anger in this thread is baffling to me. Is there nobody (besides me) who prefers “you” to “u”, but can’t get excited about the issue? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2004, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/60 "2004-02-21T20:52:23Z")
**Civil Defense** STFU GtG Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396.md?page=4)