# Uh, I'll use "u" if I damned well please. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 21, 2004, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396 "2004-02-21T18:33:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2004, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/121 "2004-02-22T04:52:23Z")
> [@Civil Defense](#): > > Rather, if I’m reading you right, you’re suggesting that no matter the form of the rest of my post, the content, or the attitude in which it is conveyed, the majority of the readers are going to immediately deem it ignorant upon seeing a “u”? It will seriously damage your credibility, yes. It will lower their opinion of you, that you didn’t know any better, or, _you knew and didn’t care and did it anyway._ How could it not color someone’s opinion of you? If what you are saying is compelling enough, some may overlook your annoying typing habits to a certain degree. But few will overlook it 100%, especially, once again, if they KNOW that you KNOW that it’s annoying and you insist on doing it anyway. But if someone mentions how annoying it is, in passing, and you give them this same song and dance about how it shouldn’t matter, then BAM! Right then and there, you are gonna be deemed an idiot. That’s how it is. Can’t you already tell that from the responses of this thread? > [@](#): > > Indeed. My guess would be that pretty much everyone WOULD ignore the usage, skim over it, and not even consciously notice it. Deluded! How can you be so _deluded?_ No, “ignore” as in, “ignore this idiot.” ---
**Author:** ![RobuSensei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/919ad9/32.png) [@RobuSensei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RobuSensei)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2004, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/122 "2004-02-22T05:05:51Z")
> [@Civil Defense](#): > > Indeed. My guess would be that pretty much everyone WOULD ignore the usage, skim over it, and not even consciously notice it. I wasn’t planning on commenting, because many others have already expressed the points I wanted to make. However, I see from this comment that you have ignored the people who have said that this usage would actually break the flow of reading, and they would have to go back and re-read. This is the case for me as well. I tend to read very fast, and abbreviations such as this are very annoying. If I run into too many of these, I figure that the writer doesn’t care enough about what he’s writing to put it in the most easily accessible standard English. Why should I care about it either, then? So, _my_ guess is that I _will_ be ignoring (and skipping over) your usage of the letter “u” for “you,” etcetera. Of course, I will also be skipping over your entire post, as well. I’ll ask you the question I asked in the thread that spawned this one. You do _want_ people to read your posts, don’t you? You do _want_ people to take your words seriously, don’t you? (and on preview, I see that yosemitebabe has just said what I mean to say. Oh, if only I had saved those precious milliseconds by shortening three-letter words to one…) ---
**Author:** ![Civil\_Defense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Civil\_Defense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Civil_Defense)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2004, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/123 "2004-02-22T05:09:43Z")
> [@RobuSensei](#): > > I’ll ask you the question I asked in the thread that spawned this one. You do _want_ people to read your posts, don’t you? You do _want_ people to take your words seriously, don’t you? This is true; however, I can’t say that I will be offended if people who actually get bent out of shape over such a simple thing ignore me. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2004, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/124 "2004-02-22T05:14:16Z")
> [@Civil Defense](#): > > Indeed. My guess would be that pretty much everyone WOULD ignore the usage, skim over it, and not even consciously notice it. Apparently in my edits, I managed to obliterate my meaning. People will ignore any post that includes ‘u r a idiot’ type spelling. Got it now? ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2004, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/125 "2004-02-22T05:25:03Z")
> [@Civil Defense](#): > > So, tell me, when reading the post to which you replied with the above, how much difficulty did you have interpreting the meaning of “msg-board”? Still playing this old tune, eh? If you must know, I read straight through _txt_ without a blip, got tangled around lower-case _im_. I read through _msg-type_ until I got to _debate-type_, at which point I made the mental comparison and concluded, “Compared to the second one, I guess the first one means a message board where abbreviations are common.” It’s not **easy** to read through a lot of abbreviations—but that’s not my point and it never was, except as related to people who do not natively comprehend English. Your snarky point was addressed to the wrong debater. You’ve already **heard** from a poster in Sweden who agrees with my basic point—who says explicitly that your easy-to-comprehend premise is dead wrong—and still you pretend as if “u” is the same difficulty to read as “you?” You’re a fool, and what’s more, you’re a fool who won’t even confront the evidence. If you want more, just check the ratio of posts to views of your precious Pit thread. Lots of people are taking the trouble to look into the thread, and are people leaping to your defense? No—and so far we’ve heard from a couple of people who hadn’t planned to comment because their arguments had already been made. Delude yourself, if you wish, that the majority of 40,000 posters will enjoy your dumbed-down English. Ignore the testimony of non-English speakers that it is not easy to read. Pretend that your silk purse is still a valid commodity though you assemble it from a sow’s ear. You will get out of this message board exactly what you put into it. ---
**Author:** ![RobuSensei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/919ad9/32.png) [@RobuSensei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RobuSensei)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2004, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/126 "2004-02-22T05:28:19Z")
> [@Civil Defense](#): > > This is true; however, I can’t say that I will be offended if people who actually get bent out of shape over such a simple thing ignore me. Okay, fine. Maybe there’s only a small percentage of posters here who feel the need to correct you on your erroneous usage. However, I would guess that most of those posters who aren’t chiming in on this could be described by what Tengu just said. Here, let me quote it for you , in case you missed it the first time. > [@Tengu](#): > > People will ignore any post that includes ‘u r a idiot’ type spelling. > > Got it now? (Thanks, Fish, just what I wanted to say. It’s not that I don’t type fast, it’s that I type too much… Where’s an editor when you need one?) ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2004, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/127 "2004-02-22T05:29:00Z")
I seem to recall reading that the SDMB Staff is trying to raise the tone of this board. An increasing number of people taking single-letter shortcuts for three-letter words probably isn’t what they had in mind. ---
**Author:** ![Doc\_Nickel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@Doc\_Nickel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doc_Nickel)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2004, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/128 "2004-02-22T06:25:53Z")
> [@Civil Defense](#): > > And, like I’ve said, anyone who’s going to label me as ignorant simply because I may type “u” **isn’t worth MY time.** Your twenty-five posts in this thread to date, including the OP, say otherwise. Actions, as they say, speak far louder than words. When one finds oneself in a hole, one should put down the shovel. ---
**Author:** ![Civil\_Defense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Civil\_Defense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Civil_Defense)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2004, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/129 "2004-02-22T06:27:56Z")
> [@Doc Nickel](#): > > Your twenty-five posts in this thread to date, including the OP, say otherwise. Actions, as they say, speak far louder than words. > > When one finds oneself in a hole, one should put down the shovel. Then again, when being attacked, it’s hard NOT to find time. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2004, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/130 "2004-02-22T06:43:33Z")
Ah, so that’s why you politely referred to everyone as holier-than-thou, brain-strained, hypocrites-by-implication anal-retentives worthy only of your mockery for conserving their precious milliseconds of calculation, and then asked people not to bother responding because their opinions weren’t worth your time. Good thinking, that. Way to practice what you preach. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![KJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b2d939/32.png) [@KJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KJ)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2004, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/131 "2004-02-22T07:13:08Z")
I’m confused… You just said “u r.” What does that mean? Help me out, I’m totally lost here, what are you trying to say? … Oh! _I get it!_ U means “you!” That is so clever! And the “r” means…wait, wait, let me get this…“are?” But then what’s “4” mean!? I’m so confused. I have no idea what you’re saying. :rolleyes: > [@ParentalAdvisory](#): > > Seriously though, would you really discredit someone based on a ‘u’ abbreviation? You probably wouldn’t for a ‘LOL’, or would u? Yes. > [@Garnet](#): > > I’ve been on the receiving end of this too; I was speaking French to someone online once, and he kept using the abbreviation “c”. I guess silly abbreviations aren’t just restricted to English. I was totally confused by this; I read it and thought of the pronunciation “see” as in English. That would probably correspond to the word “si” in French, which didn’t really make much sense. Then later I finally realized, you have to read “c” as the French do, pronounced “say”, and it was an abbreviation for “c’est”. A similiar thing happened to me; I was in a Spanish-speaking chatroom for a considerable time before I realized that “K” was supposed to mean “que.” But seriously, I think the main problem with “u” is not the fact that it makes the text harder to read (which it does) or that people won’t understand it (don’t worry, they do.) The problem is the attitude it conveys…I always get the impression that the person using “u” is “lazy.” Not “lazy” as in “doesn’t do a lot of physical activity” but “lazy” as in “stupid teenager who sees ‘laziness’ as a source of pride because it seems rebellious.” Give me a break. (If you’ve met this person, you know what I’m talking about–I’ll admit, it used to be me.) ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2004, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/132 "2004-02-22T07:30:17Z")
> [@Civil Defense](#): > > And, like I’ve said, anyone who’s going to label me as ignorant simply because I may type “u” isn’t worth MY time. > > I think we’ve reached a simple resolution-- if I’m too stupid for you to pay attention to, then you’re too anal for me to care about. Deal? Since I don’t have anything better to do right now, I thought it might be worthwhile to go ahead and quantify what you’re talking about here. So I went back over the thread and divided every one who posted to it into four categories: [ul] [li] **Pro-U** : people who agree with you that abbreviations like ‘u’ are acceptable;[/li][li] **Anti-U** : people who disagree. This group encompasses several camps: those who think it’s annoying, and makes you look like an idiot; those who think it is harder to read; and those who advise against it as being against the standards of ths board.[/li][li] **Neutral** : people who apparently don’t gve a shit.[/li][li] **Unknown** : people whose attitudes I could not discern with certainty based on their posts in this thread. (Although I’m pretty sure some of them would be in the Anti camp, but didn’t specifically say so here.)[/ul][/li] Okay, here’s the breakdown (as of this typing): Pro-U: **Civil Defense CheekyMonkey613 Parental Advsory pencilpusher** Total: 4 posters Anti-U **Ilsa\_Lund FilmGeek heater Bricker Fish Tusculan erislover Snooooopy Elysian Diogenes the Cynic overlyverbose Siege Smeghead hopefool Musicat Garnet fluiddruid Jonathan Chance Infectous Lass Legolamb CrazyCatLady Ferrous yosemitebabe Tengu Baldwin Gyrate Thylacine Miller Starving Artist gooti Ravenman The Gaspode clairobscur splatterpunk Tentacle Monster Ruby pulykamell Doc Nickel collinsc RobuSensei Jeff Olsen KJ** Total: 42 posters Neutral **Earl of the CC Manduck Shade Dijon Warlock** Total: 4 posters Unknown: **mic84 Mr. Blue Sky elfbabe**\* **Shodan** \* **SmackFu Qadgop the Mercotan**\* **Necro Romancer** \*\* **This Year’s Model 2nd Law** Total: 9 posters - I’m fairly sure these folks are Anti, but I can’t say for certain based on their posts here. \*\*I didn’t even try to read that leetspeak crap, so I have no idea if he was supporting the OP or not. You may notice that the posters in the Anti column represent a pretty broad range of attitudes and interests, and include several people who disagree with each other on practically everything. On this issue, they are united. So, **Civil Defense** , to the extent that the posters in this thread represent a meaningful sample of the total population of the SDMB, roughly 71% of Dopers are not worth your time to read or respond to. Kinda makes one wonder what you’re doing here, ya know? … (Yes, I do have too much time on my hands. Why do you ask?) ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2004, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/133 "2004-02-22T07:34:34Z")
> [@Tusculan](#): > > I notice that all of you are only saying that the ‘u’ is annoying. Well, to me it is not only annoying but actually harder to read. That’s right, it’s _harder_ to read. Same here. In fact, the voice in my head doesn’t pronounce “u” as “you” it pronounces it as “ooo”. It pronounces “r” as “rrrr” and “ur” not as “you’re” but as “urrrrr” etc. So basically, the narration I hear in my head sounds like a bad comedian’s impression of a mentally retarded person. And so that is how I picture the person who is typing. _shrug_ Then there is also the word-shape issue that other people have touched on. Word shapes help us read faster. That is why it TaKeS lONgeR tO rEAd StuFf WriTTEn lIKe ThIS. And that is yet another reason why things like “u” “r” “ur” etc are annoying as hell. When I see someone typing like that, I have zero respect for what they say and pretty much assume that they are of subaverage intelligence. In fact, I will generally stop reading what they say and skip over it entirely. They may be great people… but they can’t be bothered to type the words out and I can’t be bothered to find out if they aren’t morons after all. And you know what? I’d say the majority of the people on this board feel the same way to one degree or another. And things like BRB, LOL, and WTF aren’t abbreviations, they’re acronyms. Difference. For the record, I don’t care if it’s email, IMs, message board posts, or your doctoral thesis… it annoys me in all instances. The ONLY time I could understand it is if you were typing on something that severely limited the number of characters you could send, such as a text pager or something. > [@Civil Defense](#): > > Indeed. My guess would be that pretty much everyone WOULD ignore the usage, skim over it, and not even consciously notice it. Speaking as someone who has been on the SDMB for something approaching 8 years, I think I can say that you’re wrong. It would stand out like a sore thumb to 95% of the people on this board. And yes, most of them would think less of you for it. And it won’t just be the people who get “bend out of shape” over it, either. There will be plenty of people who wouldn’t dream of saying anything or getting upset… but they will, none the less, think less of you. ---
**Author:** ![Necro\_Romancer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Necro\_Romancer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necro_Romancer)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2004, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/134 "2004-02-22T07:37:36Z")
> [@yosemitebabe](#): > > Wow. I actually was able to decipher that. > > Well, I guess that settles it then. We should all type like that. After all, Necro Romancer got his (her?) point across, so isn’t that ALL that matters? Ah my dear…let’s not even pretend like anything else actually matters. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2004, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/135 "2004-02-22T07:51:46Z")
> [@Civil Defense](#): > > What, you want an example? Alright. In my last job alone, we frequently communicated with the managers via e-mail. Ignoring the fact that they, alone, used “u” and “r” frequently in memos to us, a quick archived e-mail search brings up a letter from the corporate VP, a man who got where he is today surely with the help of some intelligence, to our store’s staff with the following line: u guys are doing great!!! I know I’m arriving late to this thread, but… I just wanted to say that this notion is totally untrue. As somebody who has to work with business owners and corporate officers day in and day out helping them sort through financial matters, I can tell you that just because somebody owns a business–even if it’s a successful one, doesn’t mean that they are intelligent. Not in the slightest. Some of the dumbest, most obnoxious people in the world I’ve had the displeasure of meeting have been presidents and vice presidents of companies. I’m not being nitpicky, either. When a person has been in business for more than ten or twenty years, and is completely mystified when you ask them questions like “Are you for-profit or non-profit?” and “Are you incorporated?”, they are -stupid-. Not that some of the company officers I’ve talked to haven’t been nice and on track with everything. But you’d be amazed at how sloppy most of them are. Your VP sounds like one of them, if he can’t be bothered to send out memos in proper English. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2004, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/136 "2004-02-22T07:53:12Z")
Actually, **Ferrous** , my alignment is chaotic evil. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2004, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/137 "2004-02-22T07:58:11Z")
> [@](#): > > **Civil Defense** : I am communicating just fine as long as you understand what I said. You are communicating a lot more than you are willing to acknowledge. > [@](#): > > Rather, if I’m reading you right, you’re suggesting that **no matter the form** of the rest of my post, the content, **or the attitude in which it is conveyed** , the majority of the readers are going to immediately deem it ignorant upon seeing a “u”?(bold type added) It’s like reading a letter where all of the _i_’s are dotted with little hearts. It is hard to take the content seriously when it is written that way. “Form” is about the whole – not about a part. If you choose to use _u_ and _r_, that particular post has poor form. Meanwhile, the reader who is looking for clues about your attitude has found two already. The content would have to be powerful indeed to overcome the handicaps that you are insistent shouldn’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2004, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/138 "2004-02-22T08:00:51Z")
> [@Snooooopy](#): > > Actually, **Ferrous** , my alignment is chaotic evil. 🙂 Well, did I at least get the right number of **o** ’s in your name?😉 ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2004, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/139 "2004-02-22T08:07:59Z")
> [@Ferrous](#): > > Well, did I at least get the right number of **o** ’s in your name?😉 Very impressive! Not everyone goes to the trouble! ---
**Author:** ![Necro\_Romancer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Necro\_Romancer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necro_Romancer)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2004, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396/140 "2004-02-22T08:09:25Z")
Going to echo what Ashtar said, seeing as I have several in my gene pool. And for the record, I’m against writing in shorthand when it comes to public postings. As many people have already stated, it’s hard to take anyone seriously when they type that way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-ill-use-u-if-i-damned-well-please/230396.md?page=8)