# Uh: money orders and check cashing (need answer fast!) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 30, 2009, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-money-orders-and-check-cashing-need-answer-fast/504772 "2009-07-30T14:00:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-money-orders-and-check-cashing-need-answer-fast/504772/1 "2009-07-30T14:00:50Z")
Help! I accepted a position as a private tutor (it worked well with getting my second degree, and it was only a month for good pay). That’s background. However, the guy wants to send me pay in advance. OK, fine whatever. He’s sending it by check via UPS. OK, fine by me. He’s sending (sight unseen) a whopping amount much larger and wants to me cash it (!) and then send the remainder onward via Western Union to the pupil’s nanny in West Virginia. _Queue red flags appearing in front of my eyes._ Now, in a perfect world I might not care. I don’t need to know why they’re doing this. However, this is not perfect world. I cash that check and I am on the hook for _something_, although I can probably find a way to send the money. But, if I handle it, I could be on the hook for it. If I cash it, it’s counted as my personal income, and I’m liable for taxes on it. I am not a financial instrument. Crap, how do I handle this now? Other annoying things include sending me a bad UPS code, sending emails after 10:00 pm and wanting answers ASAP, and not telling me this until 10:00 _am_ today… well after I left home. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-money-orders-and-check-cashing-need-answer-fast/504772/2 "2009-07-30T14:02:42Z")
It’s a scam. Don’t do it. ---
**Author:** ![Bag\_of\_Mostly\_Water](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bag_of_mostly_water/32/1029_2.png) [@Bag\_of\_Mostly\_Water](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bag_of_Mostly_Water)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-money-orders-and-check-cashing-need-answer-fast/504772/3 "2009-07-30T14:03:54Z")
Run away – this is a well known scam. See [here for a description](http://www.fraud.org/tips/internet/fakecheck.htm). ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-money-orders-and-check-cashing-need-answer-fast/504772/4 "2009-07-30T14:07:55Z")
Don’t cash it, don’t deposit it, in fact, treat it like toxic waste. Here’s what will happen. You’ll deposit the check and then draw enough to get a WU money order, which you’ll send to the nanny. Then the check will bounce, your account will get deducted for the money order, and there will be no way you can get reimbursed by WU. Ask him this question: “Why don’t you just send the money you owe the nanny directly to her?” ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-money-orders-and-check-cashing-need-answer-fast/504772/5 "2009-07-30T14:27:12Z")
Wow. They were pretty good about. They fronted money to put an ad for a tutor and, despite poor spelling, gave an OK impression overall. It was only now that I started to really suspect something was up. Oh well, that sucks, since I now don’t have a tutoring position. C’est la vie. Have to find others. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-money-orders-and-check-cashing-need-answer-fast/504772/6 "2009-07-30T14:30:29Z")
Think about just this one thing: the check is sent UPS so the guy isn’t subject to mail fraud prosecution if he sent it thru USPS. How many red flags does it take for all of this to sink in? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-money-orders-and-check-cashing-need-answer-fast/504772/7 "2009-07-30T14:44:26Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Think about just this one thing: the check is sent UPS so the guy isn’t subject to mail fraud prosecution if he sent it thru USPS. > > How many red flags does it take for all of this to sink in? Why do you think I suddenly got suspicious and started asking question? ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-money-orders-and-check-cashing-need-answer-fast/504772/8 "2009-07-30T15:40:18Z")
Be sure to save all of your correspondence, including especially the UPS package, with these people and follow [FTC’s advice](http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/credit/cre40.shtm): > [@](#): > > **If You Think You’re a Victim** > If you think you’ve been targeted by a counterfeit check scam, report it to the following agencies: > > • The Federal Trade Commission: Visit [ftc.gov](http://ftc.gov) or 1-877-FTC-HELP (1-877-382-4357). > > • The U.S. Postal Inspection Service: Visit [Welcome | USPS](http://www.usps.gov/websites/depart/inspect) or call your local post office. The number is in the Blue Pages of your local telephone directory. > > • Your state or local consumer protection agencies: Visit [www.naag.org](http://www.naag.org) for a list of state Attorneys General, or check the Blue Pages of your local telephone directory for appropriate phone numbers. The Tennessee AG contact numbers are available [here](http://www.tn.gov/attorneygeneral/phone.htm). ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-money-orders-and-check-cashing-need-answer-fast/504772/9 "2009-07-30T16:11:54Z")
You really haven’t heard of this scam? Hmm… Hey, my cousin needs tutoring as well. He is a prince of Nigeria. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-money-orders-and-check-cashing-need-answer-fast/504772/10 "2009-07-30T23:46:34Z")
Staying far away from this is probably your best bet, but one option would be to cash the check, and wait until the funds have cleared before doing anything else (you might have to call your bank to find out exactly when this happens). That’s still going to stick you with a penalty for a returned deposit. At my bank, that’s only $9, so it might be worth it if I had any reason to believe the people were honest. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-money-orders-and-check-cashing-need-answer-fast/504772/11 "2009-07-30T23:50:17Z")
Sounds too good to be true == too good to be true ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-money-orders-and-check-cashing-need-answer-fast/504772/12 "2009-07-31T00:18:39Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > Staying far away from this is probably your best bet, but one option would be to cash the check, and wait until the funds have cleared before doing anything else (you might have to call your bank to find out exactly when this happens). That’s still going to stick you with a penalty for a returned deposit. At my bank, that’s only $9, so it might be worth it if I had any reason to believe the people were honest. Considering that one way this works is that banks will say “it’s cleared!” after a few days and then come back a week to a few weeks later and smack you with the NSF penalty, that may not be a wise move. They may also suspect you of knowingly attempting to pass a bad money order and that could lead to more trouble. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-money-orders-and-check-cashing-need-answer-fast/504772/13 "2009-07-31T00:39:15Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Considering that one way this works is that banks will say “it’s cleared!” after a few days and then come back a week to a few weeks later and smack you with the NSF penalty, that may not be a wise move. They may also suspect you of knowingly attempting to pass a bad money order and that could lead to more trouble. I bank with Chase (formerly WaMu) and often have checks from clients that are questionable. (I do their bookkeeping, so I pretty much know if they have a lot of cash floating around or if they’re scraping by). Sometimes the bank can verify the amounts instantly and assure us the check will be good. In fact, with checks drawn from Chase, they have occasionally offered an unsolicited warning about a check that would have bounced. More often, it takes them a few days. We call a rep at the branch back periodically to make sure everything went through. At some point, the check has cleared, money has moved from one bank to another, and there’s no way it can go bad after that. Prior to Check21, that could take 2 weeks or so, but it seems to be just three or four days now. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-money-orders-and-check-cashing-need-answer-fast/504772/14 "2009-07-31T00:50:35Z")
It is my understanding that the fraudulent nature of the checks comes to light after it looks like you have the money in the account. And that is basically how the scam works. You get the check deposit it. It looks like it clears so you wire the extra money to the scammer. Then the fraudulent nature of the check comes to light and the bank takes the money back. You are out the extra money you sent the scammer and any returned check fees. From [http://www.fraud.org/tips/internet/fakecheck.htm](http://www.fraud.org/tips/internet/fakecheck.htm) Ex\_chemist’s link > [@](#): > > You don’t have to wait long to use the money, but that doesn’t mean the check is good. Under federal law, banks have to make the funds you deposit available quickly – usually within one to five days, depending on the type of check. But just because you can withdraw the money doesn’t mean the check is good, even if it’s a cashier’s check. It can take weeks for the forgery to be discovered and the check to bounce. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-money-orders-and-check-cashing-need-answer-fast/504772/15 "2009-07-31T00:51:41Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > Staying far away from this is probably your best bet, but one option would be to cash the check, and wait until the funds have cleared before doing anything else (you might have to call your bank to find out exactly when this happens). That’s still going to stick you with a penalty for a returned deposit. At my bank, that’s only $9, so it might be worth it if I had any reason to believe the people were honest. This might not be a completely disastrous suggestion, but it certainly is not a good one. He should follow the steps recommended by the FTC above. At no point should he indorse and present the check, which under the law of commercial paper makes him a warranter of its genuineness. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-money-orders-and-check-cashing-need-answer-fast/504772/16 "2009-07-31T01:35:07Z")
> [@gazpacho](#): > > It is my understanding that the fraudulent nature of the checks comes to light after it looks like you have the money in the account. And that is basically how the scam works. You get the check deposit it. It looks like it clears so you wire the extra money to the scammer. Then the fraudulent nature of the check comes to light and the bank takes the money back. You are out the extra money you sent the scammer and any returned check fees. > > From [http://www.fraud.org/tips/internet/fakecheck.htm](http://www.fraud.org/tips/internet/fakecheck.htm) Ex\_chemist’s link It’s called the Over-payment scam. You are not only responsible for paying back any money you sent to the scammers, but the money remaining, that you keep, is not real either. So if you spend any of the money you kept, it is just like writing a bad check. Send a money order back for $10,000, you now owe your bank 10k. Spend $2500 of ‘your’ money that you were allowed to keep, you now owe $12,500. The OP is selling a service, but many small companies get taken in by this scam believing that the scammer actually wants their product. In that case the returned money is usually directed to a 3rd party for shipping or customs fees. That 3rd party is the real scammer and no one is really interested in getting the actual product offered. I started a job about 2 years ago, (no longer there) at a small mom and pop biz and they were just about to order a large, custom, heavy glass shower enclosure for an orphanage, for a reverend in Montana, but shipped to Africa. I had a hell of a time as the new guy convincing them not to forward the shipping fees. And unless the owners were building a new building, not to order the custom shower either. They would have been out the ‘shipping’ fees and stuck with a very expensive custom shower that no one would buy. For future reference; if you ever have an occasion to do what you believe is new, legitimate business out-of-country, the best way is for your bank to establish an “Irrevocable Letter of Credit” between two banks that will verify the status of each other, and the process, before proceeding. It’s the best way to insure that you will get your money. _ **Any attempt to rush the process is a clear indication to run away** _ [http://www.crfonline.org/orc/cro/cro-9-1.html](http://www.crfonline.org/orc/cro/cro-9-1.html) ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-money-orders-and-check-cashing-need-answer-fast/504772/17 "2009-07-31T01:51:19Z")
Oh, and West Virginia might as well be Nigeria or Mars. These things are increasing and coming from everywhere. Multi Billion dollars are taken in this way per year in the US alone. (no I don’t mean million, Billion) If you have to forward money to get a job, it’s a scam. That is how the ‘work from home’ internet scams now popular work. They will tell you it’s only $2 for the how-to instructions and you end up with an $80 monthly charge on your credit card that you have a hell of a time cancelling. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-money-orders-and-check-cashing-need-answer-fast/504772/18 "2009-07-31T02:12:21Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > Staying far away from this is probably your best bet, but one option would be to cash the check, and wait until the funds have cleared… My understanding is that in some cases in can take months for a phony check to be finally and definitely determined as fraudulent. I think it’s a fallacy to believe that you’re likely to get a 100% positive “it’s cleared” commitment from the bank. I would not rely on this method. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-money-orders-and-check-cashing-need-answer-fast/504772/19 "2009-07-31T11:47:29Z")
Why are people suggesting that the OP continue with this??? It is so clearly and obviously a scam the OP needs to walk away and forget about it. This makes the issue of how long to wait for the check to bounce immaterial. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-money-orders-and-check-cashing-need-answer-fast/504772/20 "2009-07-31T11:55:07Z")
So have you actually met with these people? On the phone or in person? Or has this all been online so far? Don’t get me wrong, it’s still a scam, I’m just wondering. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-money-orders-and-check-cashing-need-answer-fast/504772.md?page=2)