# Uh Oh! Still no WMD **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 6, 2003, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-still-no-wmd/180160 "2003-06-06T19:46:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-still-no-wmd/180160/81 "2003-06-09T00:18:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ogre \* > \*\*And I once heard of a Professor Emeritus of Political Science who opined that evolution was poppycock. \*\* Actually, I thought Dawkins made the point(s) very well, it was not an appeal to authority, he just said what I feel succinctly. But (and I’m guessing here), Dawkins would say that “your” _Professor Emeritus_ could suck his fucking dick. I agree. And on preview, **December** , give it up mate, between the myriad strawmwn there’s barely a point left to see. ---
**Author:** ![Claptree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58f4c7/32.png) [@Claptree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claptree)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-still-no-wmd/180160/82 "2003-06-09T00:23:49Z")
How much time was it Blix and UNSCOM said they needed to complete the inspections before they withdrew? If I’m not mistaken they said either 2 or 3 months. So the US military, now in (admittedly not total and utter) control of Iraq, needs more time to search the country than UNSCOM would have? Providing of course Blix’s schedule was accurate. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-still-no-wmd/180160/83 "2003-06-09T02:46:37Z")
The scoreboard as of June 8, 2003: **Total WMDs Found:** 0 **Total People Killed In War:** 5,000-10,000 ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-still-no-wmd/180160/84 "2003-06-09T02:50:42Z")
> [@](#): > > But (and I’m guessing here), Dawkins would say that “your” Professor Emeritus could suck his fucking dick. I doubt Professor Dawkins would be that crude. You, however, are clearly the one espousing that position, to which I say: How utterly childish. Do grow up. ---
**Author:** ![tcdaniel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9bd4f/32.png) [@tcdaniel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tcdaniel)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-still-no-wmd/180160/85 "2003-06-09T03:17:31Z")
WWGWBDWWMD?😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-still-no-wmd/180160/86 "2003-06-09T03:19:56Z")
Well, he certainly has them now, so… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-still-no-wmd/180160/87 "2003-06-09T11:05:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ogre \* > \*\*I doubt Professor Dawkins would be that crude. You, however, are clearly the one espousing that position, to which I say: > > How utterly childish. Do grow up. \*\* He would if he was posting here, ya fucking moron. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-still-no-wmd/180160/88 "2003-06-09T12:29:27Z")
From the Rice and Powell spin doctoring article-- more bad new for the Bushies: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A32394-2003Jun8.html?nav=hptop\_tb](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A32394-2003Jun8.html?nav=hptop_tb) > [@](#): > > She said that Director of Central Intelligence George J. Tenet believed Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and “the president gets his intelligence from his director of central intelligence.” The key judgments of the intelligence community, Rice said on ABC’s “This Week,” were contained in an October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate that said flatly that “Iraq had weapons of mass destruction” and that Hussein “was continuing to improve his weapons of mass destruction capabilities, that he was hiding these from the world, [and] that there were large, unaccounted-for stockpiles.” > > Although those judgments of the October report were unequivocal, the backup material in a declassified version of it made public Oct. 4 was less definitive. The backup material said that “accounting and current production capabilities strongly suggest that Iraq maintains a stockpile of chemical agents” and not that it possessed such a stockpile. It also said that Iraq “probably” had concealed items “necessary for continuing its CW [chemical warfare] effort” and was rebuilding dual-use equipment that “could” be diverted to weapons production, not that Baghdad was improving its capabilities. Gee, it could have been because of all the (now exposed) heavy lobbying by Cheney and the Chickenhawks could it? Oops, we lied about something else other then WMD and Al Queda ties: > [@](#): > > Rice did concede that an inaccurate claim, that Iraq sought to buy uranium in Africa, was included in President Bush’s State of the Union message in January. Rice said the White House believed that to be true at the time. But she said the claim, attributed in the speech to the British, was what “the intelligence community said we could say.” > > When asked about New York Times columnist Nicholas Kristof’s report in May that some intelligence officials were told in February 2002, almost a year before the president’s speech, that the information on the uranium purchase was false, she replied, “Somebody may have known.” But she added Iraq tried to buy more uranium and “the important thing . . . [was] the nuclear weapons program did not rest on a document that the British cited.” There were plenty of explanations from Rice and Powell, most of which were barely plausable to me, but the Pubbie apologists may dig them Click the link and enjoy. ---
**Author:** ![mudhollar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@mudhollar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mudhollar)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-still-no-wmd/180160/89 "2003-06-10T00:33:34Z")
I believe that the issue of WMD is relevant. Throughout the resolution passed by congress many reasons were cited for believing that saddam was a shithead that needed to be kicked out. BUT, the main issues were his ties to terrorism, his direct involvement in 9/11 and his continued production of WMD that he planned to use on the U.S. or give to terrorists to use. If Bush and his cronies falsified or fudged this information, then I believe the war was illegal. Read the authorization. It does not say, we get to kick saddams ass because he is a bad dude and mean to his citizens or because we can and we want to. It doesn’t even matter that he was in violation of the UN resolutions. He had to be a threat to us. The authorization says if he poses a threat to us AND – not or-- is in violation of the UN resolutions. * * * SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES. (a) AUTHORIZATION- The President is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to (1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and (2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq. [http://www.house.gov/becerra/IRAQ\_resolution.pdf](http://www.house.gov/becerra/IRAQ_resolution.pdf) * * * I don’t believe Saddam was a threat to the U.S., and I don’t believe that our administration believed that he was a threat. I don’t think oil was the reason for the war either. I think the main reason for the war was to find a permanent home for military bases in the mideast, and to ensure that the oil producing countries did not dump the American dollar for the EU dollar. Our current administration believes we need new markets and a guarantee that our dollar will continue to be worth something. A well developed oil producing country was a nice bonus. Unfortunately the Bush administration misjudged the condition of the country. It’s no longer the country Rumsfeld knew when he cosied up to Saddam in the 80’s. It’s a dowdy, broken down wreck of a country. This slowed down the Bush agenda some, but they will catch up sooner or later. The middle east is the new wild west, and we plan to overrun it just like we did the American west. The “Indians” better get out of the way because here we come! ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-still-no-wmd/180160/90 "2003-06-10T08:26:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mudhollar \* > I think the main reason for the war was to find a permanent home for military bases in the mideast, and to ensure that the oil producing countries did not dump the American dollar for the EU dollar. The first item may very well be true, and if so is an enormous miscalculation. However, I can credit. The last item, a change from the USD to the Euro is pure illiteracy. Invading Iraq is not going to effect whether the commodity is priced in dollars or Euros. If the Euro comes to be seen as a better unit of exchange by the markets, the change will happen, if not, it will not. Nor do I believe even this Administration is economically illiterate enough to base policy on such idiocy. > [@](#): > > Our current administration believes we need new markets and a guarantee that our dollar will continue to be worth something. Again, economic illiteracy. Invading countries to obtain markets is neither cost effective nor in an era of more or less freer trade, particularly effective. Nor does invading Iraq do anything at all to make the dollar worth something or not. Indeed the deficits implied by higher spending and tax cuts rather put pressure on further dollar depreciation. > [@](#): > > A well developed oil producing country was a nice bonus. Illiteracy. > [@](#): > > Unfortunately the Bush administration misjudged the condition of the country. It’s no longer the country Rumsfeld knew when he cosied up to Saddam in the 80’s. It’s a dowdy, broken down wreck of a country. This slowed down the Bush agenda some, but they will catch up sooner or later. Well, that’s pretty bloody comforting, isn’t it. > [@](#): > > The middle east is the new wild west, and we plan to overrun it just like we did the American west. The “Indians” better get out of the way because here we come! Well if there are drooling morons who are thinking along these lines, they are in for some fairly large surprises. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-still-no-wmd/180160/91 "2003-06-10T13:53:50Z")
Welcome to the SDMB, **mudhollar**. I see you’ve met **Collounsbury**. **Coll** is one of our most knowledgeable and interesting members. He’s also one of the most annoying. Please don’t be too put off by his personality. I’ve found that the best way to deal with him is to appreciate the information and perspective that he offers while just skipping past the insults and hyperbole. I found you comments very interesting and I hope you will continue to contribute to these boards. ---
**Author:** ![tcdaniel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9bd4f/32.png) [@tcdaniel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tcdaniel)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-still-no-wmd/180160/92 "2003-06-10T16:11:32Z")
Seems to me that IF Iraq had such a vast arsenal of WMD as we were led to believe, they would have been found by now. Even with all the satelitte images that are taken every day and night, they still can’t find a single vial (as Powell displayed) Iraq did turn over a bunch of documents to the UN (US), but we kept on asking for proof of destroying these - did they want the ashes or burnt casings or what? Blix said the US must be patient while the UN was hunting these. Now we’re supposed to be patient while they have free reign to look anywhere and anytime. We were duped into believing these WMD were already placed and ready to launch at a moments notice to fly over the desert with pinpoint accuracy and hit Israel and maybe even WDC. The US ain’t lookin good if they don’t produce the goods they screamed about. Maybe they can PLANT them and make us believe that too. ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-still-no-wmd/180160/93 "2003-06-10T16:47:12Z")
I never had confidence in the WMD rationale for this damn fool war, not because I thought that Iraq didn’t have a single B/C weapon, but because I didn’t see any way that they could have amounts and configurations that could constitute a _threat_ against the US. But I sure as heck expected some theatre type chemical weapons to be found (or - in my nightmares - used!) and I for one was girding my loins for a protracted debate on what it took for B/C weapons to actually constitute a threat serious enough to act as a casus belli. I am quite surprised that absolutely nothing has been found. And as enjoyable as it is to rub the hawks’ noses in the absence of WMD, right now the entire case is on shaky ground the second someone finds half a dozen rusty chemical shells on a forgotten shelf somewhere. Fox et al. will scream “Bush vindicated” loudly enough that people will believe it - people want to fell good about what their country is doing. Sure, it’s pretty good fun now, I’m actually enjoying the spectacle immensely. But if so much as a rifle bullet dipped in Windex is found in Iraq now, it’ll be so damn easy to spin along the lines of “The critics made their case on the total absence of WMD, and they were wrong!” Don’t make it too easy for the bastards, guys… ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-still-no-wmd/180160/94 "2003-06-10T18:58:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Spiny Norman \* > Sure, it’s pretty good fun now, I’m actually enjoying the spectacle immensely. But if so much as a rifle bullet dipped in Windex is found in Iraq now, it’ll be so damn easy to spin along the lines of “The critics made their case on the total absence of WMD, and they were wrong!” Sure, but that’s standard procedure for the Bushistas – take any little ol’ thing you’ve got, and turn it into the Mt. Everest of evidence. [ul] [li]“Saddam’s got ties with _al Qaeda!_”[/li](Yeah, they met just long enough for Saddam to tell them to bugger off…) [li]“Saddam’s launching illegal SCUDs at the troops!!!”[/li](No, wait, those are UN-approved short-range FROGs, nevermind) [li]“Saddam’s mobile bioweapons labs found!!!”[/li](even though the equipment’s all busted up, and lacks key components for making germs) [/ul] I mean, I fully expect to see **“Saddam’s cache of bioweapons FOUND!!!”** any day now – and at the bottom of the page, in teeny-tiny type, will be the footnote explaining that what we found were two moldy slides in an abandoned high school chemistry classroom… > [@](#): > > Don’t make it too easy for the bastards, guys… True dat. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-still-no-wmd/180160/95 "2003-06-10T19:08:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Spiny Norman \* > Sure, it’s pretty good fun now, I’m actually enjoying the spectacle immensely. But if so much as a rifle bullet dipped in Windex is found in Iraq now, it’ll be so damn easy to spin along the lines of “The critics made their case on the total absence of WMD, and they were wrong!” Don’t make it too easy for the bastards, guys… That was funny. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-still-no-wmd/180160/96 "2003-06-10T19:11:21Z")
I think it can categorically be asserted at this point, though, that far being an ‘immenent danger to US citizens in the United States’ with his WoMD, the only reason he was **any** level of danger at all to US citizens is 'cause we put 'em in his backyard, and **even then** SH did not use WoMD on them. So, if he had them at all, to claim that he was about to use them at citizens on US soil is obvious hoakum. ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-still-no-wmd/180160/97 "2003-06-10T22:34:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by blowero \* > \*\*That was funny. \*\* The rifle bullet with Windex was also shamelessly stolen, but damn if I can remember from whom. A couple of searches didn’t yield anything. I’d be happy to acknowledge whoever came up with it originally, though… ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2003, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-still-no-wmd/180160/98 "2003-06-11T07:27:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Spiny Norman \* > I never had confidence in the WMD rationale for this damn fool war, not because I thought that Iraq didn’t have a single B/C weapon, but because I didn’t see any way that they could have amounts and configurations that could constitute a _threat_ against the US. Precisely. > [@](#): > > But I sure as heck expected some theatre type chemical weapons to be found (or - in my nightmares - used!) and I for one was girding my loins for a protracted debate on what it took for B/C weapons to actually constitute a threat serious enough to act as a casus belli. I am quite surprised that absolutely nothing has been found. I second the above also. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2003, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-still-no-wmd/180160/99 "2003-06-11T12:24:46Z")
But there has been a subtle shift. Note the recent speech, insisting that Saddam had a weapons _program_. What constitutes a weapons program? Any document that discusses how such weapons might be made, regardless whether or not there is any evidence that they had been made. Everyone in Iraq with an IQ above cottage cheese knows how to make the Occupying Powers smile upon them: come up with a document. It won’t be examined too rigourously. A couple hours on the net, a bit of formatting and there you have it: a weapons program. Note also that the previous weapons hunting team has been withdrawn, to be replaced with a new weapons team, the new! improved! weapons team that apparently wasn’t previously available. Not, of course, a _UN_ team, whose reliability and impartiality are suspect. And they will get away with it. God help us, we are stupid. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2003, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-still-no-wmd/180160/100 "2003-06-11T14:54:53Z")
Hans Blix confirms Bush Administration pressure to suppoty their WMD shuck and jive: [http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030611/ap\_on\_re\_eu/britain\_blix\_2](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030611/ap_on_re_eu/britain_blix_2) > [@](#): > > The normally cool Swede, who is due to retire from his U.N. post at the end of the month, also said U.S. officials pressured him to use more damning language when reporting on Iraq (news - web sites)'s alleged weapons programs. > “By and large my relations with the U.S. were good,” Blix was quoted as saying in London’s Guardian newspaper. “But toward the end the (Bush) administration leaned on us.” > American and British troops in Iraq have failed to find weapons of mass destruction, after visiting more than 230 suspected sites. The lack of hard evidence has put huge pressure on Washington and London since Saddam’s alleged possession of banned weapons was a main U.S. and British justification for invading Iraq. Swell. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-still-no-wmd/180160.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-still-no-wmd/180160.md?page=6)