# Uh oh, the Colonials lost the war to the British! Now what? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 10, 2014, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-the-colonials-lost-the-war-to-the-british-now-what/678442 "2014-01-10T14:53:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-the-colonials-lost-the-war-to-the-british-now-what/678442/21 "2014-01-10T19:49:32Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > The US and French revolutions provide the impetus for suffrage in the UK, there was a very real fear that the status quo in Britain could not be maintained and some sort of reform was necessary. The major 1832 reform act might not have happened, perhaps there would then have been a peoples uprising, after all it is the English Civil war that demonstrated that rulers could be executed and that was not lost on the French. That’s a good point. A lot of people forget the the success of the American revolution had a political effect in Britain. If the conservative forces had defeated the revolutionaries and been able to resist reform, Britain might have ended up being caught up in the revolutionary period of the 1840’s as so many other European states were. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-the-colonials-lost-the-war-to-the-british-now-what/678442/22 "2014-01-11T00:25:56Z")
The pro-independence Colonials push West, illegally. The continent is too vast to be contained or patrolled. they will form settlements inland, perhaps as far west as Kansas, or at least in the Chicago area. France still has a revolution, because its revolution was driven by economics & climate change. The World was facing a mini-Ice Age, & the famine in France, and its economic woes, and thus its revolution, were driven by this. Thus, Napoleon would come to the throne. Once the Napoleonic Wars begin, the British face uprisings here. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendajo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Arrendajo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arrendajo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-the-colonials-lost-the-war-to-the-british-now-what/678442/23 "2014-01-11T00:53:48Z")
I don’t know about 230 years down the road, but I would feel happy and relieved. My people have been here since 1631 and were loyalists during the war. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-the-colonials-lost-the-war-to-the-british-now-what/678442/24 "2014-01-11T01:23:06Z")
the world would probably all drive on the wrong side. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-the-colonials-lost-the-war-to-the-british-now-what/678442/25 "2014-01-11T01:57:56Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Once the Napoleonic Wars begin, the British face uprisings here. The British may decide to grab the Louisiana purchase free of charge. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-the-colonials-lost-the-war-to-the-british-now-what/678442/26 "2014-01-11T01:59:05Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > the world would probably all drive on the wrong side. The most pertinent post in the thread. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-the-colonials-lost-the-war-to-the-british-now-what/678442/27 "2014-01-11T01:59:14Z")
> [@Arrendajo](#): > > I don’t know about 230 years down the road, but I would feel happy and relieved. My people have been here since 1631 and were loyalists during the war. My people shot at your people! Mom’s a big [DAR](http://www.dar.org/) (and [UDC](http://www.hqudc.org/) for that matter–the big rebel) enthusiast and has so far identified the blood of 4 (unrelated) revolutionary war vets coursing through her veins. She tries to get me excited about my Confederacy roots, but I have a hard time taking any pride at all in that. ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-the-colonials-lost-the-war-to-the-british-now-what/678442/28 "2014-01-11T02:31:25Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Or the opposite. Since Britain could no longer outlaw slavery in the Empire while still buying cheap cotton produced by slavery from the American South, the abolishment of slavery in the Empire might well happen much later. Yes, a loyalist victory wouldn’t be guaranteed to be a good thing. The abolitionists succeeded in real life because few powerholders in Britain had a vested interest in prelonging slavery. Imagine however if all the slave states were given representatives in parliament to placate them, it’d be hard for the abolitionists to get past that solid wall of resistance. That being said, the loyalists were less bigoted towards Africans, so I doubt segregation would be as severe. I am not sure how the existence of strong and independent Indigenous nations would affect it, though perhaps a good point of comparison would be in south America, where some nations are almost all European like Argentina, and some are mostly Indigeneous like Bolivia but I don’t know enough to comment. I’m not sure North America would end up less developed, Australia got lots of European and Irish immigration, and New Zealand did the same, the large number of Indigenous Maori didn’t prevent this. I do sense that North America would probably end up eclipsing the British Isles in importance, maybe the capital would be moved to New York or Boston by the 20th century. An Atlantic superstate would have less pressure to dismantle the empire, maybe Greater India would not get its independence, and that’ll create an unfortunate dilemma between racial inequality or having the Empire being democraticly dominated by the 1.5 billion people in South Asia. Less seriously though, it’ll be interesting to see how many people would celebrate Dependence day. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-the-colonials-lost-the-war-to-the-british-now-what/678442/29 "2014-01-11T03:20:09Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > I think the British intent of dealing more fairly with the First Nations (which was, in part, why the colonists rebelled) would have completely changed the history of North America. The native nations would have been squeezed and compacted (and probably crapped on almost as much) but would have evolved into at least a few modern nations amid British and French colony/nations. The history of First Nations in Canada pretty much proves to my satisfaction that this is completely wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-the-colonials-lost-the-war-to-the-british-now-what/678442/30 "2014-01-11T05:39:16Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > The British would almost certainly have kicked out the French and taken their American possessions - I can’t imagine any scenario where it would not have happened. That had already happened, confirmed by the Treaty of Paris of 1763, before the American Revolution started in 1775-76. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-the-colonials-lost-the-war-to-the-british-now-what/678442/31 "2014-01-11T12:22:15Z")
I don’t know why so many think the British would have stopped at the Appalachians. It goes against the very policy and actual history of GB/UK at that time. The would have been at war against Spain and France again and they would have relieved the Spanish and the French of their colonial possession soon enough. I think the UK would have eventually taken most of the current United States, including Alaska. By 1850 or so. They would have also taken Baja California I think. British history is full of doing exactly what pious pronouncements stated that they would not do. The knockon effects elsewhere are substantial. While I think the British will still end up with most of Aus/NZ, they immigration there will be reduced. British expansion in the sub continent OTH will probably be much reduced. Historically, a lot of the HEIC officers were displaced Americans. I think Mysore, would prove to be sufficiently strong to keep the British out. Afghanistan would probably manage to restore dominion in the Punjab. China might be more able to stop Russian advances if they have not had the problem of getting defeated by the British every third year or so. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-the-colonials-lost-the-war-to-the-british-now-what/678442/32 "2014-01-11T13:42:56Z")
For a start, you’d all learn to spell the words, “colour” and “neighbour” correctly. Eh? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-the-colonials-lost-the-war-to-the-british-now-what/678442/33 "2014-01-11T14:06:53Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > For a start, you’d all learn to spell the words, “colour” and “neighbour” correctly. Eh? 😛 Yeah, and put the tyre in the boot, and park next to the kerb. Bummer. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-the-colonials-lost-the-war-to-the-british-now-what/678442/34 "2014-01-11T15:57:33Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > For a start, you’d all learn to spell the words, “colour” and “neighbour” correctly. Eh? 😛 > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Yeah, and put the tyre in the boot, and park next to the kerb. > Bummer. > > 🙂 Or be sent to gaol. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-the-colonials-lost-the-war-to-the-british-now-what/678442/35 "2014-01-11T17:27:11Z")
You’d be bloody good at cricket. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-the-colonials-lost-the-war-to-the-british-now-what/678442/36 "2014-01-11T17:35:07Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > You’d be bloody good at cricket. Not to mention football. (No, not stupid Rugby, you wimp. **Football,** where men are **men.** [sup]\*[/sup]) What chances would Green Bay have? Less than 2014? * * * [sup]\*[/sup]And sheep are nervous. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-the-colonials-lost-the-war-to-the-british-now-what/678442/37 "2014-01-11T17:43:03Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Not to mention football. (No, not stupid Rugby, you wimp. **Football,** where men are **men.** [sup]\*[/sup]) Yeah, who wear armo(u)r. 🙂 I saw some Australian guys playing football on C-Band satellite. They play in their underwear. One wimp had a leather helmet on. They aren’t allowed to throw the ball forward. They have to carry it through a bunch of big, ugly guys in their underwear. There was an ambulance parked on the sidelines. NFL players might be able to manage the concession stand. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-the-colonials-lost-the-war-to-the-british-now-what/678442/38 "2014-01-11T19:00:31Z")
I am a fan of alternate history stories, and of these my favorite short story is “He Walked Around the Horses” by H. Beam Piper. It takes place in the early 1800’s, and is based on a real incident, the disappearance of a British diplomat, Sir Benjamin Bathurst. The story, told in a series of letters, is an alternate history of what happened to him. [http://www.gutenberg.org/files/18807/18807-h/18807-h.htm](http://www.gutenberg.org/files/18807/18807-h/18807-h.htm) Near the end you will see what happened to some of the major characters in “our” history, when the American Revolution didn’t work. The signature at the end of the last letter had me burst out laughing when I read it. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-the-colonials-lost-the-war-to-the-british-now-what/678442/39 "2014-01-11T19:07:43Z")
> [@Mithras](#): > > …you’ve just had a war in which many people in all levels of society have become radicalized. I disagree with this. The American Revolution was only supported by less than 10% of the population, and many Colonials were entirely unconcerned with and unaffected by the war itself. Actual combat was localized to sporadic battles between the primary armies (no carpet bombings, etc.) and in 1776 there was no 24-hour news coverage to spread propaganda for either side. That said, I doubt the revolutionaries would have taken their toys home after Washington surrendered at Yorktown, so the scenario you describe probably would have been ongoing in a limited fashion. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-the-colonials-lost-the-war-to-the-british-now-what/678442/40 "2014-01-11T20:16:07Z")
In the immediate aftermath of the British victory, expect a heavy-handed crackdown. The existing colonial legislatures are abolished and new ones created with representatives vetted by the British Parliament. In addition, the colonial governors are given unlimited veto over colonial acts. The major port cities are placed permanently under the authority of [admiralty courts](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admiralty_court) (yes there was such a thing) and tax officials given _carte blanche_ to search anywhere, anytime. All western lands not already under title are declared property of the crown, anyone living there can be legally removed as squatters, and large estates and patents of nobility are granted to loyalists. A low-level insurgency continues as rebels on the frontier and hiding in the hills and swamps resist British authority but they are regarded as “bandits” and periodically routed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-the-colonials-lost-the-war-to-the-british-now-what/678442.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uh-oh-the-colonials-lost-the-war-to-the-british-now-what/678442.md?page=3)