# UHC. You want public option? Get into prison **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 24, 2009, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496 "2009-12-24T23:45:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2009, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/41 "2009-12-26T14:05:20Z")
> [@DJ\_Motorbike](#): > > No, I specifically don’t want anything for free, and I’m not the type of person who takes advantage of something just because it is free. I don’t want government mandated health-insurance and never did legislation to pass. > > As long as I will be forced to buy health insurance under the threat of fines/jail time I will make a doctor’s appointment for every headache, sniffle or boo-boo. Suck on it. Could you go live in the woods and not bother any of us or try to undermine our society. I mean right now your participating in the use of all types of things you get for ‘free’ You’re arguing because you’ll be taxed for something you didn’t personally request you’ll abuse the system for the purposes of making it less efficient costing you and other taxpayers alike more money. I’m not sure how you think our representative democracy is supposed to work but you know we pay taxes that go to all types of things each individual might not personally want or need. Why is this health care issue so different to you? ---
**Author:** ![Camus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ba8739/32.png) [@Camus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Camus)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/42 "2009-12-26T15:50:24Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > There any non-felony convictions that put people in prison for 2 years? I’d imagine anything resulting in a felony conviction on your record would be a major hassle after you got out. In general, felonies are crimes that carry a possible sentence of more than one year in prison (but could be less), whereas misdemeanors are crimes that carry a possible sentence of up to one year in jail (but technically could result in more than one year in jail if a defendant isn’t given credit for any pretrial incarceration). ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2009, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/43 "2009-12-26T15:59:24Z")
> [@Camus](#): > > In general, felonies are crimes that carry a possible sentence of more than one year in prison (but could be less), whereas misdemeanors are crimes that carry a possible sentence of up to one year in jail (but technically could result in more than one year in jail if a defendant isn’t given credit for any pretrial incarceration). Yeah, I was thinking getting a 2 years on a misdemeanor could be difficult but if a someone commits 2 or 3 misdemeanors could they manage a 2 year prescription er I mean sentence? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2009, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/44 "2009-12-26T19:33:29Z")
> [@DJ\_Motorbike](#): > > As long as I will be forced to buy health insurance under the threat of fines/jail time I will make a doctor’s appointment for every headache, sniffle or boo-boo. Suck on it. Somehow, I don’t think you will. But please feel free to prove me wrong. Just keep a journal about the experience, so you can document yourself doing so. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/45 "2009-12-27T08:17:12Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Because of course ear infections was the only health issue **Alessan** was talking about, and it certainly wasn’t a single example intended as illustration. It was an example of a minor health concern, which is exactly what **Alessan** said. I have trouble believing that a _minor_ health concern is capable of interfering that much with one’s ability to work. Or that it is necessary to go to the doctor. > [@boytyperanma](#): > > Yeah but we are dealing with averages here. A young healthy person on average pays more into health insurance then they will get out of it. Advising all young Americans to pay 500 bucks a month into private insurance because they might need it is like advising they spend 500 bucks a month in a casino because they might win. So, you don’t have car insurance either? Homeowners? The reality is that most people who pay into any insurance don’t get as much out of it as they pay in, otherwise insurance companies wouldn’t be able to stay in business. But intelligent people buy it anyway, for the just-in-case and what-if. > [@DJ\_Motorbike](#): > > I specifically do not expect someone else to pay for it. When I say I’m willing to take the risk it means I will take responsibility if something does happen. Yeah? You have several hundred thousand dollars laying around in case you have a severe head injury or contract some expensive disease? ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/46 "2009-12-27T10:28:58Z")
Someone that I know was in an accident that put him in the hospital for seven months. If an MRI costs a couple of thousand, can you imagine what his hospital stay would have cost in the USA? Fortunately for him, he lives in a country that has UHC and it didn’t cost him anything. He doesn’t even have to have insurance at all. The health care is free. As much as people would like to think that they can be responsible for their own health care, that can become a fantasy very quickly. It’s hard to pay your debts if you are in a coma or if you are severely disabled. And permanent care is very expensive. It wears out the caregivers too – who too often are your family members. But that’s a calculated risk you take with their lives. Did you ever hear how Lawrence of Arabia died? After all of his dangerous undertakings, he was killed on a motorbike. Who would have thought it? ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/47 "2009-12-27T10:37:26Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > So, you don’t have car insurance either? Homeowners? The reality is that most people who pay into any insurance don’t get as much out of it as they pay in, otherwise insurance companies wouldn’t be able to stay in business. But intelligent people buy it anyway, for the just-in-case and what-if I think you’ve misunderstood my complaint about health insurance system. With other types of insurance they seem to value lifetime customers. For a younger healthy person people are arguing they should pay into a system that may not even be there for them when they actually need it. I pay into insurance because it is just that ‘insurance’ it takes the hassle off me when something bad happens. For insurance I carry myself I carry auto(required by the state though even without the requirement I’d have it). I sold out of my house to my ex bf so no longer carry homeowners. I carry rental on my apartment and shop. I carry liability on my business. I carry health insurance the 6 months out of the year I make enough to afford it and apply for MassHealth in the middle of the six months I go without to make the state requirement. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/48 "2009-12-27T10:43:35Z")
I’m guessing she was with you until you brought up MassHealth, but time will tell. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/49 "2009-12-27T11:34:32Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I’m guessing she was with you until you brought up MassHealth, but time will tell. I’m never actually given mass health I just apply and get turned down. ---
**Author:** ![Silverstreak\_Wonder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silverstreak_Wonder)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/50 "2009-12-27T17:36:53Z")
What I don’t get is why there is not a judgment against prisoners for any medical care given? Why do we give them free everything yet won’t pay for the victims injury and no one seems to care? I’ve read of free heart operations and such, why would anyone want prisoners to have this free care? I don’t get it at all. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/51 "2009-12-27T17:45:31Z")
> [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > What I don’t get is why there is not a judgment against prisoners for any medical care given? Why do we give them free everything yet won’t pay for the victims injury and no one seems to care? I’ve read of free heart operations and such, why would anyone want prisoners to have this free care? I don’t get it at all. It’s a constitutional issue. IIRC, it’s been ruled up at the Supreme Court level that inmates are entitled to health care that meets community standards. And since they can’t provide it for themselves, the State is required to do so. If you want that to change, work for a constitutional amendment to supercede the “cruel and unusual” clause. ---
**Author:** ![Silverstreak\_Wonder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silverstreak_Wonder)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/52 "2009-12-27T17:53:45Z")
I certainly think such an amendment ought be done as almost all would support that. I’d also like to see them get just one meal a day too. That is how to save budgets, start first cutting services to evil people, not good ones paying taxes. Also the OP’s argument that prison shows why the public option is bad is all wrong. It shows it is so good doctors want in to do it, and none of the prisoners ever says to stop the free care, just give me even more of it, please. A doctor that sees you just a few minutes can still give you the prescriptions you need to live, verses not being able to see one at all, now which is better OP? ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/53 "2009-12-27T18:28:20Z")
> [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > I certainly think such an amendment ought be done as almost all would support that. I’d also like to see them get just one meal a day too. That is how to save budgets, start first cutting services to evil people, not good ones paying taxes. If you want to take that argument to great debates feel free. Don’t plan on coming out victorious. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/54 "2009-12-27T19:01:22Z")
> [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > Also the OP’s argument that prison shows why the public option is bad is all wrong. Just how did you come up with that conclusion? I’m a 100% supporter of single payer UHC as I have it here in Canada. The fact that your government only underwrites the health care for the most and least privileged members of your society is what baffles me. And yes, after years of hearing stories how Canadian doctors want to leave to the US be cause they can make more money in a more private system, I’m somewhat taken by the fact that American doctors are increasingly opting to become employees of the state. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2009, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/55 "2009-12-27T22:15:45Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > …, medicare fraud, … Anybody else find this ironic: that this crime leads to free medical care? > [@](#): > > Oh, and Merry Christmas! To you, too! ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/56 "2009-12-28T05:58:39Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > I think you’ve misunderstood my complaint about health insurance system. With other types of insurance they seem to value lifetime customers. For a younger healthy person people are arguing they should pay into a system that may not even be there for them when they actually need it. > > I pay into insurance because it is just that ‘insurance’ it takes the hassle off me when something bad happens. For insurance I carry myself I carry auto(required by the state though even without the requirement I’d have it). I sold out of my house to my ex bf so no longer carry homeowners. I carry rental on my apartment and shop. I carry liability on my business. I carry health insurance the 6 months out of the year I make enough to afford it and apply for MassHealth in the middle of the six months I go without to make the state requirement. Are you saying that you think it is more likely that a health insurance company is less likely to pay on a claim than car, homeowners, rental and liability? Or, do you think it is more likely that you will need the car, homeowners, rental and/or liability than health insurance? Or, do you somehow think that other types of insurance will value you more than a health insurance company will? I’m not getting why you think health insurance is a bad buy, yet you carry all the rest. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/57 "2009-12-28T06:34:50Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Are you saying that you think it is more likely that a health insurance company is less likely to pay on a claim than car, homeowners, rental and liability? Or, do you think it is more likely that you will need the car, homeowners, rental and/or liability than health insurance? Or, do you somehow think that other types of insurance will value you more than a health insurance company will? I’m not getting why you think health insurance is a bad buy, yet you carry all the rest. If you go back and read the thread an argument introduced was younger healthy people should pay into health insurance because it helps keep costs lower for the older customers. My argument to that was it makes no sense to buy into health insurance at a young age believing it would somehow help that same youngster when they themselves become old. To me if a health insurance company made some effort to guarantee coverage later there would be a much stronger argument. Health insurance is just a bad guy to me because they benifit greatly by dumping customers after their prime years where other insurances have motivation to keep customers as time goes on. Granted other insurances have different standards for accessing risk, points on a drivers license or claims against you for example, just as it works out for health insurance age/health standard is a shitty one considering people don’t have control over it. From a business perspective it makes perfect sense to do as they do. I don’t find them morally flawed for such a structure. If the young healthy people are given the option of not paying into a system and choose not to they are not making a bad decision for themselves in my opinion. I am a proponent for UHC. A system in which all people are paying in makes sense. I carry all the above insurances because I need them to feel secure in addition to the requirements I have them. I would love to carry health insurance year round for the same purpose but my budget doesn’t allow for it so I only carry it for the 6 month period I’m making enough to cover it which also coincides with when I’m at most risk for injury. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/58 "2009-12-28T15:05:16Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > What’s the problem with public option ? Well, you can pick. Is the answer: A) Socialism, rationing, death panels B) Big dollar companies with big dollar lobbying deciding they don’t want their profit margin to decrease? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/59 "2009-12-28T15:28:03Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Nothing quite as humiliating to a near-naked teen at a doctor’s office against his will, as hearing said doctor annoyedly snarl under his breath ( but not quietly enough ) to a nurse as he stalked out after examining me that “I don’t even know what he is doing here.” I don’t know, I think having the doctor tell the cutest nurse you’ve seen in your 32 years, “Take a good look because you’ll probably never seen one this big again\*” ranks up there pretty high, too. -Joe \*Sadly, no, not that. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/60 "2009-12-28T15:28:12Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Well, you can pick. > > Is the answer: > > A) Socialism, rationing, death panels > B) Big dollar companies with big dollar lobbying deciding they don’t want their profit margin to decrease? > > -Joe A. Socialism doesn’t mean what you think it means, insurance companies already ration health care more severely than the government would, there are no such things as ‘death panels’ (except in the current, privately-run system). B. Single-payer would reduce or elimitate the profit motive. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496.md?page=4)