# UHC. You want public option? Get into prison **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 24, 2009, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496 "2009-12-24T23:45:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/61 "2009-12-28T15:32:48Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > A. Socialism doesn’t mean what you think it means, insurance companies already ration health care more severely than the government would, there are no such things as ‘death panels’ (except in the current, privately-run system). > > B. Single-payer would reduce or elimitate the profit motive. I don’t think he made any claim those were good or accurate reasons but those are stated reasons which motivated idiots(in my opinion) use against UHC ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/62 "2009-12-28T15:39:33Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > I don’t think he made any claim those were good or accurate reasons but those are stated reasons which motivated idiots(in my opinion) use against UHC Yup. Got it in one. I’m no **curlcoat** , TYVM. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/63 "2009-12-28T15:40:46Z")
I’ve been whooshed! ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/64 "2009-12-30T03:27:29Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > If you go back and read the thread an argument introduced was younger healthy people should pay into health insurance because it helps keep costs lower for the older customers. My argument to that was it makes no sense to buy into health insurance at a young age believing it would somehow help that same youngster when they themselves become old. To me if a health insurance company made some effort to guarantee coverage later there would be a much stronger argument. My argument is that there is no time in anyone’s life when they can guarantee that they will not need medical insurance to pay off big bills. The idea that young healthy people should “pay their dues” I think is just an excuse for them to take a chance on not needing insurance. And it seems to have morphed into a rallying cry for a UH, since for some reason today’s young adults cannot be bothered to buy medical insurance, so therefore the government needs to save them from themselves. > [@](#): > > Health insurance is just a bad guy to me because they benifit greatly by dumping customers after their prime years where other insurances have motivation to keep customers as time goes on. Many car insurers will dump you if you have an accident with a large claim, or get a certain number of tickets, a DUI, etc. Some homeowners insurers will also refuse to continue to cover after a large claim or may just flat not write insurance in certain places. It begins to sound like you are listening to too much of the anti medical insurance propaganda - when it comes to something like “motivation to keep customers as time goes on”, there is little difference between the different types of insurance. Your car insurance will be no more motivated to keep you if you cost them enough money than a health insurer would. > [@](#): > > If the young healthy people are given the option of not paying into a system and choose not to they are not making a bad decision for themselves in my opinion. I’m just not getting the disconnect between this and your willingness to carry insurance on (apparently) every other area of your life. The odds that you might need to make a claim on one of those other policies simply can’t that much greater than the possibility you might need health insurance? > [@](#): > > I am a proponent for UHC. A system in which all people are paying in makes sense. It only makes sense to people like you, who feel you shouldn’t have to pay for medical insurance until you think you’ll need it, since a UH means you would get the rest of the country to subsidize your insurance premium for you. ---
**Author:** ![LeeshaJoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LeeshaJoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LeeshaJoy)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/65 "2009-12-30T03:53:28Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Many car insurers will dump you if you have an accident with a large claim, or get a certain number of tickets, a DUI, etc. Some homeowners insurers will also refuse to continue to cover after a large claim or may just flat not write insurance in certain places. It begins to sound like you are listening to too much of the anti medical insurance propaganda - when it comes to something like “motivation to keep customers as time goes on”, there is little difference between the different types of insurance. Your car insurance will be no more motivated to keep you if you cost them enough money than a health insurer would. Then what motivation do I have to insure myself against anything, ever? **What, exactly, are we paying the insurance companies for?** ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/66 "2009-12-30T05:59:01Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Many car insurers will dump you if you have an accident with a large claim, or get a certain number of tickets, a DUI, etc. Some homeowners insurers will also refuse to continue to cover after a large claim or may just flat not write insurance in certain places. It begins to sound like you are listening to too much of the anti medical insurance propaganda - when it comes to something like “motivation to keep customers as time goes on”, there is little difference between the different types of insurance. Your car insurance will be no more motivated to keep you if you cost them enough money than a health insurer would. Reading comprehension does not seem to be one of your strong points here. I think I stated pretty my opinion on the matter and that I understand there are legitimate reasons for a health insurance carrier to drop coverage much like there is for car insurance and home owners insurances to do the same. HEALTH INSURANCE CARRIERS HAVE GOOD AND LEGITIMATE REASONS TO DROP COVERAGES. Auto insurance companies also have good and legitimate reasons to drop coverages. I agree with both their reasons for doing so. It is simply my opinion that health insurance comes off more shitty then the others because often times their legitimate reason is one at which the customer may have no control over. People can get old and sick through no fault of their own. On other insurances it often requires a conscious act to become a higher risk. Car insurance relates to point accrued because of your poor driving decisions for example. > [@](#): > > I’m just not getting the disconnect between this and your willingness to carry insurance on (apparently) every other area of your life. The odds that you might need to make a claim on one of those other policies simply can’t that much greater than the possibility you might need health insurance? I think I’m up to three times now telling you that I do carry health insurance whenever I am economical able to. Maybe the other posters can point out how I should reword this so an idiot like you can understand. > [@](#): > > It only makes sense to people like you, who feel you shouldn’t have to pay for medical insurance until you think you’ll need it, since a UH means you would get the rest of the country to subsidize your insurance premium for you. I don’t think I’ve said anywhere in this thread that I should not have to pay for health insurance but feel free to continue to misinterpret what I’ve said ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/67 "2009-12-30T06:47:21Z")
> [@LeeshaJoy](#): > > Then what motivation do I have to insure myself against anything, ever? > > **What, exactly, are we paying the insurance companies for?** To cover any number of small issues that don’t cause the insurance company to decide we aren’t worth the risk any more. Or to cover that one big issue as far as the policy allows - the cancer treatment, the house fire, the car your teenager totaled by driving it into the neighbors house. Or, you can hope that you won’t have any big ticket expenses for a long period of time and take what you would pay in premiums and invest it. Hopefully by the time you have need of a large chunk of money, your investments will have grown enough to cover them. > [@boytyperanma](#): > > Reading comprehension does not seem to be one of your strong points here. Look asshole, there are enough people here that try that dodge as it is. My one question, which you have not bothered to answer, is what is the difference between health insurance and all the other insurance you carry. I don’t care that you do have health insurance for some months out of the year, it is still a fact that you are willing to pay for other insurance all year but don’t cover your health at all times. All of this you think health insurance “comes off more shitty” and “people can get old and sick through no fault of their own” is either stupidity or a smoke screen. Do you think that when the insurance was canceled because a drunk driver destroyed my father’s car as he sat at a stop light, that the car insurance company is any less shitty? Do you think it’s rare that car/homeowners/whatever insurance is canceled thru no real fault of the insured? Since there is no real difference between health insurance and all other insurance, the only reason left that I can see for you to not bother with health insurance all year is because you know that the government will pick up the slack for you if something happens while you are uninsured. > [@](#): > > I don’t think I’ve said anywhere in this thread that I should not have to pay for health insurance but feel free to continue to misinterpret what I’ve said Then why aren’t you paying for health insurance all year? Are you really so naive that you think it is impossible that you will have a major health issue during your uninsured time frames? Who will pay for your care? What will you do when you cannot get insurance to cover that pre-existing condition? Are you too dumb to understand these issues or just lack the responsibility to care? ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/68 "2009-12-30T07:29:08Z")
[quote=“curlcoat, post:67, topic:522496”] My one question, which you have not bothered to answer, is what is the difference between health insurance and all the other insurance you carry. Ok your reading skills are not so good how about your math skills Auto insurance(my personal vehicle) $1300 a year and required by law Rental insurance(my apartment) $300 a year Health insurance $6000 a year Can you understand the difference between these numbers and comprehend why one might make a choice not to pay for one of them. Also throw in in the past 5 years for medical requirements have been 5 yearly check ups and a single prescription that is available as a generic. > [@](#): > > Do you think that when the insurance was canceled because a drunk driver destroyed my father’s car as he sat at a stop light, that the car insurance company is any less shitty? Sounds shitty yes. I do not relate well to however in the states I’ve lived in all people are required to carry auto insurance so another driver hitting your car is generally covered by that persons insurance and has little if any effect on your own. > [@](#): > > Do you think it’s rare that car/homeowners/whatever insurance is canceled thru no real fault of the insured? yes > [@](#): > > Since there is no real difference between health insurance and all other insurance, the only reason left that I can see for you to not bother with health insurance all year is because you know that the government will pick up the slack for you if something happens while you are uninsured. You got me. My only reason for not carrying health insurance year round is my secret plan to make the government pay for me.. > [@](#): > > Then why aren’t you paying for health insurance all year? Are you really so naive that you think it is impossible that you will have a major health issue during your uninsured time frames? Who will pay for your care? What will you do when you cannot get insurance to cover that pre-existing condition? Are you too dumb to understand these issues or just lack the responsibility to care? Yep the only possible reasons someone would go without health insurance is because they are dumb or irresponsible. You know, because health insurance is this free thing you just ask a passing pixie for and they grant it to you. ---
**Author:** ![Fionn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fionn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fionn)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/69 "2009-12-30T18:11:37Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > Anybody else find this ironic: that this crime leads to free medical care? Not at all, since it also leads to strip searches, cell mates, and the restriction of most things ordinary people love, like being able attend family events, go out for a drive, walk around a store or order a pizza for delivery. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/70 "2009-12-30T18:32:53Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Somehow, I don’t think you will. Well, it’s the model that worked in Illinois for vehicle insurance, so there’s no reason the FEDGOV couldn’t impose large fines for those refusing to purchase insurance. Just sayin. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/71 "2009-12-30T22:22:09Z")
And how often do you see someone maxing out his or her auto insurance claims merely to make a point about having been “forced” to buy a policy? Did you even read the statement that my post was a response to? ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/72 "2009-12-30T22:43:41Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Multiple DUIs, possession of drugs, … **barratry** , … and my personal favorite; standing on a corner minding your own business when someone ran up, handed you a bag which turned out to be cocaine, ran off, and then the cops came up and took you away. bar-ra-try  /ˈbærətri/ [bar-uh-tree] –noun Law. 1. fraud by a master or crew at the expense of the owners of the ship or its cargo. 2. the offense of frequently exciting and stirring up lawsuits and quarrels. 3. the purchase or sale of ecclesiastical preferments or of offices of state. You see a lot of this, do you? Uh, which category, the defrauding of shipowners, stirring up of lawsuits or the purchase of ecclesiastical titles? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2009, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/73 "2009-12-31T01:15:21Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > Auto insurance(my personal vehicle) $1300 a year and required by law > Rental insurance(my apartment) $300 a year > Health insurance $6000 a year So, you are changing your story from “insurance companies are evil” to “I’d rather spend my money on something else”. Which is what I said in the first place. Congrats. > [@](#): > > Sounds shitty yes. I do not relate well to however in the states I’ve lived in all people are required to carry auto insurance so another driver hitting your car is generally covered by that persons insurance and has little if any effect on your own. You really are sheltered aren’t you? For one thing, there is that thing known as an uninsured driver, which is what hit my father. No insurance, driving on a suspended license and drunk, I’m sure he got into all kinds of trouble but one thing he didn’t do - he didn’t pay for my father’s car nor his medical expenses. The insurance company did, then they canceled my father’s policy. Even if the person that hits you has insurance, if they are under-insured and/or you shared any of the fault at all, your insurance company is going to make note of it. If you haven’t had it long, if you are young, if you have had other claims - you can find yourself canceled and having to get high risk coverage. No insurance company cancels a policy for no reason, since they make their money by selling policies. But if you start costing them money, they are not going to want to continue to take a chance on you. > [@](#): > > Yep the only possible reasons someone would go without health insurance is because they are dumb or irresponsible. You know, because health insurance is this free thing you just ask a passing pixie for and they grant it to you. You really are an idiot. You pay for insurance for things you are less likely to need a claim on, you go ahead and begrudge but pay for health insurance for six months and then just irresponsibly take a chance you won’t get run over by a car or something for the other six months. If money for extras is more important to you than your health, then why bother getting health insurance at all? I have a feeling that the only reason you are “responsible” enough to buy the other insurances is because you are legally required to. Answer this one - if you get creamed by a car driven by someone un- or under-insured during the time you don’t have medical insurance, how do you plan to pay for it? ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2009, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/74 "2009-12-31T01:32:58Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > answer this one - if you get creamed by a car driven by someone un- or under-insured during the time you don’t have medical insurance, how do you plan to pay for it? ssdi? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2009, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/75 "2009-12-31T02:00:38Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > ssdi? 😃 Only if he/she can get all of the creditors to wait at least two years! And even then, that income won’t even come close to paying for big medical bills. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2009, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/76 "2009-12-31T02:43:45Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Answer this one - if you get creamed by a car driven by someone un- or under-insured during the time you don’t have medical insurance, how do you plan to pay for it? Well I’d be forced to do what most Americans who can not afford health care do. If I am confronted with bills I can not afford I will accrue debt. If I am unable to control that debt I would be forced into bankruptcy. For the purposes of your argument I don’t feel I need to justify my finances to you. Yes it may be possible I chose ‘extras’ over health insurance. Are you going to argue that there are no Americans that lack the finances to afford health care? Every American has extras thay can do without to finance health insurance? What are all the poor stupid or irresponsible people that live in poverty supposed to do? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2009, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/77 "2009-12-31T03:54:31Z")
Decrease the surplus population? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2009, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/78 "2009-12-31T05:00:42Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > Well I’d be forced to do what most Americans who can not afford health care do. If I am confronted with bills I can not afford I will accrue debt. If I am unable to control that debt I would be forced into bankruptcy. Pfft. You have said you _can_ afford health care, since you can afford to purchase health insurance. You just choose not to half the time, and would rather allow the general public in your state to pick up the slack should you have a medical issue when you are not insured. > [@](#): > > For the purposes of your argument I don’t feel I need to justify my finances to you. Yes it may be possible I chose ‘extras’ over health insurance. Shrug. I don’t care what your finances are. Do you really think it’s responsible of you to just assume that if you become badly injured or very ill, that it’s OK to “accrue debt” (good luck with that one) or declare bankruptcy? So that you can have “extras”? Why are you making strangers responsible for you? > [@](#): > > Are you going to argue that there are no Americans that lack the finances to afford health care? Every American has extras thay can do without to finance health insurance? What are all the poor stupid or irresponsible people that live in poverty supposed to do? I have been very clear that I am not talking about people living in poverty - those folks have Medicaid. I don’t even have a problem with whatever the upper income is for Medicaid being raised some. I am talking about folks who have the money to get insurance but simply choose not to. Why should the taxpayers of your state be responsible for your medical bills simply because you choose to not buy insurance for half the year? Why should I be responsible for the people across the street because they decided to have a house, kids and cars they can’t afford? When did it become common for people to live their lives assuming someone else will come along and pick up the pieces if they have a problem? ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2009, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/79 "2009-12-31T05:16:32Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > I have been very clear that I am not talking about people living in poverty - those folks have Medicaid. I don’t even have a problem with whatever the upper income is for Medicaid being raised some. I am talking about folks who have the money to get insurance but simply choose not to. Why should the taxpayers of your state be responsible for your medical bills simply because you choose to not buy insurance for half the year? Why should I be responsible for the people across the street because they decided to have a house, kids and cars they can’t afford? When did it become common for people to live their lives assuming someone else will come along and pick up the pieces if they have a problem? You say these things, you talk about people being irresponsible for not purchasing insurance, you think people that remain uninsured are a drain on our country, you advocate nothing but pros for insurance, yet you object to a universal solution, What would be so bad about requiring all people to carry insurance? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2009, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496/80 "2009-12-31T06:47:23Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > You say these things, you talk about people being irresponsible for not purchasing insurance, you think people that remain uninsured are a drain on our country, you advocate nothing but pros for insurance, yet you object to a universal solution, > > What would be so bad about requiring all people to carry insurance? I don’t care what they come up with, as long as it doesn’t cost me any more than it already does. However, I cannot see how the government could realistically require that all people have medical insurance. There are so many other, better, ways to deal with the high cost of medical care and insurance, other than forcing a single-payer system on us. Why is there no support for things like dealing with malpractice rates, insurance law reforms, doing something about drug expenses, tell people to pay for their own choices just as they pay for elective surgery now, etc. A UH isn’t going to lower the costs of these things, it will just require that those who can afford insurance now will have to pay for the premiums of those who can’t or choose not to pay for it now. There are only so many taxes we can absorb for so many social programs without the bottom falling out of all but the richest folks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhc-you-want-public-option-get-into-prison/522496.md?page=5)