# UHF Television **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 17, 2014, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhf-television/707529 "2014-12-17T22:28:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhf-television/707529/21 "2014-12-18T13:06:08Z")
In the early 1970s we had a Zenith B&W TV in the living room with rabbit ears antenna. It was VHF only. We lived close to Dayton, OH, and there were only two local TV stations on VHF: channel 2 (WDTN - NBC) and channel 7 (WHIO - CBS). Every now and then, depending on the weather, we could pick up a couple stations from Cincinnati (channels 9 and 12). A couple UHF station finally sprung up in Dayton: channel 22 (WKEF - ABC) and channel 16 (WPTD - PBS). My dad bought a UHF tuner that connected to the TV. The tuner had a continuously-variable dial. To watch a UHF station, you had to turn the TV’s channel dial to channel 3. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhf-television/707529/22 "2014-12-18T14:26:19Z")
Where I lived growing up, we got really good reception. We could receive eight out of 12 VHF channels. Three were very clear. The other five weren’t as clear, but entirely watchable. The weirdest thing was that once–just once–I got a very fuzzy picture on one channel long enough to identify it as a Channel 8 Waycross, Georgia–which was 200 miles away! We also got lots of UHF stations. Three of them were clear, and another half dozen or so were not so clear, but still watchable. As a kid, one of the most fun ones was Ted Turner’s WRET (Ted’s initials) Channel 36 out of Charlotte. It was not network affiliated and showed lots of stuff like cartoons, Stooges, Little Rascals, old movies, etc. So it was a big culture shock when I moved to the big city and could receive. . . ONE VHF channel, and four UHF channels (none of which were WRET)! ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhf-television/707529/23 "2014-12-18T14:29:42Z")
> [@BaldDudePeekskill](#): > > Back in the day, our public television stations were the only channels on the UHF band. However, I understand that that may be have just been unique to the NYC area. Did any of you have to tune into the big networks with the wobbly little dial? Was reception as iffy on the UHF band for you as it was for us, most of the time? We didn’t have the big three on UHF, but lots of little channels. The kind that showed Gilligan’s Island and Brady Bunch reruns after school. Plus Bowling For Dollars and Hockey Night in Canada. This was in Buffalo. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhf-television/707529/24 "2014-12-18T14:56:33Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Which meant that for those of us in San Diego, most of our local stations were on UHF - NBC was on channel 39, and the stations that eventually became UPN and WB affiliates were on 51 and 69. PBS, oddly enough, was on VHF - channel 12, I believe. ♬ _Join Thirty-Nine TV It’s something to see!_ ♬ I don’t recall 39 being an NBC station back in the late-'60s to mid-'70s. I remember it being a ‘local station’ like KTLA in Los Angeles. We had Channel 8 and 10, and Channel 6 was XETV, broadcasting out of Tijuana. ISTM that 6, 8, an 10 were the local VHF stations. I think 6 was not one of the Big Three, 8 was CBS, and 10 was ABC. Am I misremembering, and 39 really was NBC? As far as UHF, I remember that 14 was KPBS (public television). There was 39, already mentioned; and I think 58 (out of Orange County?). I think I remember one other UHF station that I didn’t discover until later. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhf-television/707529/25 "2014-12-18T16:23:42Z")
Our PBS, NBC and Fox stations were UHF, 23, 29 and 35. HD digital is very nice when you have a good signal. But it really seems to me that marginal analog signals were better than marginal digital signals. Yeah the analog picture would get snowy but you could still mostly see it and IIRC the sound stayed pretty good. With digital if the signal strength goes much below 40% it gets blocky and the picture freezes and the sound cuts out. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhf-television/707529/26 "2014-12-18T16:30:57Z")
> [@Pai325](#): > > In Chicago, the big three, plus public TV, plus WGN were all VHF. I think it was sometime in the 60s when I remember UHF stations. I think they were 26 and 32 or something. The reception wasn’t that great and there wasn’t really anything I wanted to see on them. 32 carried the Sox. Never watched them; our color TV only got VHF and baseball in black & white doesn’t look right. I don’t remember 26 but [apparently it ran religious & financial programming, and originated “Soul Train”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WCIU-TV). ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhf-television/707529/27 "2014-12-18T20:36:49Z")
> [@Pai325](#): > > In Chicago, the big three, plus public TV, plus WGN were all VHF. I think it was sometime in the 60s when I remember UHF stations. I think they were 26 and 32 or something. The reception wasn’t that great and there wasn’t really anything I wanted to see on them. I lived in Chicago until I was 10 (1975). I remember at least three UHF stations: 26, 32, and 44 (which was Spanish-language, even then, IIRC). [Channel 26](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weigel_Broadcasting) appears to have been Chicago’s first UHF station, in 1964. We watched Channel 32 quite a lot; they had [BJ and Dirty Dragon](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_BJ_and_Dirty_Dragon_Show) (a great, subversive local kids’ program), Batman reruns, and a lot of other reruns of comedies which I liked watching. They also had the Merv Griffin Show. I remember getting the UHF signal to be occasionally challenging (we lived in Lisle, which is 30 miles away from downtown). We moved to Green Bay in '75, where there were no independent stations, and only the PBS station was on UHF (until around 1981, when we got our first independent station, somewhere on the UHF dial). I remember being annoyed when we’d visit my grandmother’s house, and her TV didn’t pick up the PBS station at all (because she never got a UHF antenna). ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhf-television/707529/28 "2014-12-18T21:06:34Z")
We lived at the eastern end of Long Island and couldn’t get NYC stations (before cable). The nearest NBC affiliate was in New Britain (WHNB-30), so you needed a UHF tuner to see it. My father sold TVs, so we got one relatively early (1964). I’d try to talk about **The Man from U.N.C.L.E.** with my classmates and they had no idea what I was talking about. We got cable within a year; I know we had it during the Great Northeast Blackout, since we were the only place in the entire northeast that had power and we wondered why the cable had gone out. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhf-television/707529/29 "2014-12-18T21:30:01Z")
In Houston, the Big 3 and public television were VHF, and we had 2 (26,39), then 3 UHF independents. If weather conditions were just right, we could sort of get Austin area VHF stations. I don’t remember cable TV being a thing until the early 1980s- maybe 1981-1982 or so. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2014, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhf-television/707529/30 "2014-12-19T01:11:16Z")
We had PBS and several independent stations on UHF. One of the independent stations turned into a scrambled subscription channel at 8pm for a while. Later, another indy station became a Fox affiliate. Later still the first indy station became a WB station, and the other one a UPN station, while a third indy station became a CBS affiliate (Fox took it’s spot on VHF). Now the WB one is MyNetwork, and the UPN one is CW. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2014, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhf-television/707529/31 "2014-12-19T03:34:36Z")
Where I grew up in West Texas in the 1960s, our one public-education channel was on VHF. CBS and NBC too, but ABC was on UHF. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhf-television/707529/32 "2014-12-21T02:25:53Z")
Aus tried to shift from VHF to UHF sometime last century. VHF is totally gone now, but so is UHF, replaced by digital. The shift was partly driven by the desire to free up VHF frequencies, but in AUS, UHF was presented as an improvement, a better system than VHF. This was because the politicians who were supporting the shift to close down VHF take all their ideology from the UK. In the UK, VHF was the old system of analog TV. It was actually old. obsolete. not any good. very very low resolution. very very low frame rate. The real system of TV, the TV that real people watched unless they were out in the country, or had only a very very old TV, or both, was UHF. UHF was visibly better than UHF in the UK, and ignorant UK-biased Aus politicians believed that the same would be true in Aus. But… UHF was not better than VHF in Aus, because we were late in the whole TV game. Our local VHF TV was already very good quality. Visibly better than USA TV. Our UHF was not late: our UHF was the same as our VHF (there was a late generation UHF adopted by small backward countries that was slightly better) All else being equal (which it never is), UHF transmission is short-range line-of-sight, particularly susceptible to intervening building or hills, or passing airplanes. All else being equally, UHF is not as good as VHF: the advantage is that more channels can be stuffed into the UHF bands. For these reason, our commercial stations were uninterested in switching from VHF to UHF. So: the UK had some good UHF stations. Aus had UHF stations from broadcasters that had no money, or got their frequency allocations late, and missed out. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhf-television/707529/33 "2014-12-21T03:37:21Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I don’t recall 39 being an NBC station back in the late-'60s to mid-'70s. I remember it being a ‘local station’ like KTLA in Los Angeles. We had Channel 8 and 10, and Channel 6 was XETV, broadcasting out of Tijuana. ISTM that 6, 8, an 10 were the local VHF stations. I think 6 was not one of the Big Three, 8 was CBS, and 10 was ABC. Am I misremembering, and 39 really was NBC? You are clearly an older San Diegan than I. XETV/6 was the Fox affiliate by my time in the '90s. I had to refer to Wikpiedia for the rest of this, but apparently, KNSD/39 (which had become the ABC affiliate in 1972 after acquiring the rights from XETV) became the NBC affiliate in 1977 when KGTV/10, the former NBC affiliate, dropped NBC and became the ABC affiliate for San Diego, leading to KNSD acquiring the now-vacant NBC rights. Later on (by which time I had already moved away from San Diego), KTTY/69 became KSWB, one of the flagship WB stations, and then stole the Fox affiliation out from under XETV’s feet, which lead to XETV picking up the WB franchise and subsequently becoming the local CW outlet. KUSI, as far as I remember, was the only San Diego station that was never affiliated with any major network (unless you count UPN as a major network, which nobody does), and KMFB was associated with CBS all along and never changed affiliations. I wonder if any other major US city has such a cutthroat and Byzantine history of stations swapping affiliations. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhf-television/707529/34 "2014-12-21T07:07:08Z")
I remember UHF. That weird little round antenna on our TV set. I lived in Toronto in the 60s, 70s, and 80s. With the VHF dial nearly full of channels (CBC on 3 and 5, CTV on 9, CHCH on 11, NBC on 2, CBS on 4, ABC on 7, plus a few ever-so-slightly out of range), it seemed that UHF was the way to go for anybody wanting to start a TV station. And they did: CityTV broadcast on channel 79, and showed “Baby Blue Movies” (softcore porn) on Friday nights. Channel 19 was TVO, Ontario’s educational channel, and showed classic movies every Saturday night. The Global network–today, a big player in Canadian TV–got its start on channel 22. Channel 25 was the CBC in French. And channel 29, out of Buffalo, was great for Sunday afternoon “Creature Features.” Later, Multicultural TV on channel 47 would show endless reruns of “Married with Children” and “Jerry Springer” when it wasn’t showing news broadcasts in Mandarin, Italian, or Hindu. It also had “The All-Night Show,” running from about 1:00 a.m. to about 6:00 a.m., and featuring such fare as “Mr. Lucky,” “Peter Gunn,” “The Twilight Zone,” and “The Prisoner,” all hosted by Chuck the Security Guard. Good times on the UHF dial! ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhf-television/707529/35 "2014-12-21T14:31:31Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > Wow. This New Yorker never appreciated how good he had it as a kid. We had CBS on 2, NBC on 4, ABC on 7, and independents on 5 9 and 11. We also had PBS on 13, but the reception wasn’t as good as the other VHF. There were a few UHF stations too, but the reception was so bad that it wasn’t worth the effort to watch shows whose content was pretty poor too. To this day, I think of 2, 4, and 7 as the “natural” numbers for CBS, NBC, and ABC. When I was visiting north east Pennsylvania in that time period, though, we could get all the NYC stations, and on UHF got the Scranton version of the networks (16 was ABC, 22 was CBS and 28 was NBC as I recall, with 44 as the PBS station). ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhf-television/707529/36 "2014-12-21T14:33:42Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > And channel 29, out of Buffalo, was great for Sunday afternoon “Creature Features.” Yes, Channel 29 was the one I was posting about up thread. Loved ch 29. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhf-television/707529/37 "2014-12-21T14:38:45Z")
UHF was the Old Movies/Monster Flicks/Tarzan/Sherlock Holmes/Bowling For Dollars channels. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhf-television/707529/38 "2014-12-21T23:45:25Z")
Moving to CS. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhf-television/707529/39 "2014-12-22T01:08:41Z")
When I was growing up in Minneapolis/St Paul (I was born in 1955), we had CBS on channel 4 (WCCO), NBC on channel 5 (KSTP), ABC on channel 9 (KMSP), and independent channel 11 (WTCN). IIRC, “the educational channel” (KTCI) was on 2 _and_ 13 on UHF (I don’t remember PBS at all before the mid-70s). The only time I ever watched it was at school, when there was something our teachers wanted us to see. The first big change came around 1978 when ABC moved to KSTP and WTCN became the NBC affiliate. (KMSP was left an independent.) In the early '80s, we got two new UHF channels, 29 (KITN) in the Twin Cities and 41 out of St Cloud (KXLI, geddit?). Thanks to advances in technology, you didn’t have to fiddle with your tuner and these came in just fine. I watched them **a lot** (probably too much) in college because they carried many of my favorite old shows (e.g., _ **The Avengers** _). I also started watching channel 2 a lot after they began showing things like _ **The Ascent of Man** _ and _ **Monty Python** _ in the '70s. I think the first time I heard the phrase PBS was in '75 during one of their interminable pledge drives. These always featured Jack, the station manager, and were actually quite funny on occasion (though not intentionally). ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhf-television/707529/40 "2014-12-22T13:32:40Z")
> [@fiddlesticks](#): > > In Wisconsin, most of the Madison TV stations were on UHF (except for Channel 3), presumably because Madison was too close to the VHF dominated Milwaukee market (and perhaps even Chicago was too close for FCC rules on interference) Where I grew up in the Green Bay media market, it was the traditional setup. 2, 5, 11 on VHF were the big network stations, 26 and 38 were the independent and PBS station on UHF. I remember when Channel 26 came on air > **[WGBA-TV](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WGBA-TV)** > > WGBA-TV (channel 26) is a television station in Green Bay, Wisconsin, United States, affiliated with NBC. It is owned by the E. W. Scripps Company alongside Appleton-licensed independent station WACY-TV (channel 32). The two stations share studios on North Road near the WIS 172 freeway in Ashwaubenon (with a Green Bay postal address); WGBA-TV's transmitter is located in the unincorporated community of Shirley, east of De Pere, Wisconsin. > WGBA-TV operates a Class A translator station in Door Co... (reminds me - there were several networks swaps in Green Bay) I also remember when channel 32 (Fox) came on air In La Crosse (before the digital conversion), ABC, FOX and PBS were UHF. Rochester NBC had a translator in La Crosse (still does, but different frequency) (which is good, since NBC in Eau Claire is iffy reception) Brian [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhf-television/707529.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uhf-television/707529.md?page=3)