# UK Border Force runs "Interment Sites" for Asylum Seekers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 2, 2015, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-border-force-runs-interment-sites-for-asylum-seekers/713965 "2015-03-02T00:20:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-border-force-runs-interment-sites-for-asylum-seekers/713965/21 "2015-03-02T01:48:11Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > Another flippant comment coming from me im afraid. Your a fundamentalist Scots Nat. Your condemnation of the British government as an act of patriotism on your part runs hollow with me. Are you being patriotic to the Scottish state with your op? Or the British state? I am not a fundamentalist Scottish Nationalist. I am English and will remain so with the typical disdain for patriotism often shown by the English. I do support Home Rule for Scotland, and although quite worried about the ramifications of independence do believe tat if the Scots vote for independence, then it should follow. I also believe that the Unionist parties and interests are acting perversely in a manner that will drive Scotland out of the Union, rather than seeking a federal structure with home rule. I take full civic responsibility for the British Government, as for any citizen and voter, even whilst disagreeing with much of its foreign policy and some of its domestic politics. My sole act of flag waving nationalism is the Cornish flag I fly in my garden, celebrating my English West Country roots. You have made some seriously incorrect assumptions. I cannot say any more. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-border-force-runs-interment-sites-for-asylum-seekers/713965/22 "2015-03-02T01:49:36Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > So the debate is about how much better **Pjen** ’s moral principles are when compared to a bunch of Americans? No. It is about being fair minded in dealing with situations in your own and others back yards. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-border-force-runs-interment-sites-for-asylum-seekers/713965/23 "2015-03-02T01:52:59Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > By the way, the reaction to the OP surely would have been different if the headline involved phrases like “Guantanamo-on-Great Ouse” or “gulag with fish and chips” to describe the facility. I would say that “Internment Camp” was equal to Guantanamo or the gulags (or in UK and US histories, the interment of Japanese American citizens or the concentration of Boers.) I do not need to defend atrocities, British or otherwise. Many states have made horrific errors. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-border-force-runs-interment-sites-for-asylum-seekers/713965/24 "2015-03-02T03:04:16Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Having just done some research and looking at the accounts, I will ask you to cite for the Scott Trust having “millions of pounds sitting in offshore tax havens.” Guardian Media Groups accounts from 2008. A profit of over £300 million and they still ended with a tax rebate: [https://autonomousmind.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/g52.jpg](https://autonomousmind.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/g52.jpg) Hypocrisy here: [http://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/feb/18/barclays-bank-113m-corporation-tax](http://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/feb/18/barclays-bank-113m-corporation-tax) The Guardian used the very same tax management strategy to avoid paying tax on it’s own sale of it’s share in AutoTrader. [http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/06/28/the-insufferable-hypocrisy-of-the-guardian-on-corporation-tax/](http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/06/28/the-insufferable-hypocrisy-of-the-guardian-on-corporation-tax/) The GMC profits in 2012-13 were £186 million. It paid £200,000 in tax. [http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/guardian-media-firm-makes-186m-but-pays-only-200000-tax-8675818.html](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/guardian-media-firm-makes-186m-but-pays-only-200000-tax-8675818.html) Offshore accounts here: [http://leftfootforward.org/2014/11/tax-havens-are-syphoning-money-away-from-our-public-services/](http://leftfootforward.org/2014/11/tax-havens-are-syphoning-money-away-from-our-public-services/) “Action Aid has published a database of FTSE 100 company use of subsidiaries in tax havens, which highlights the large-scale use of this tactic. The tax evasion activities of Amazon and Vodafone have received media coverage, but the Luxembourg Files and\*\* Action Aid data show that many other well-known household names are engaged in this practice: Eon, GlaxoSmithKline, Dyson, Burberry, Aviva, Prudential, HSBC, McGraw Hill and surprisingly, the Guardian Media Group.”\*\* ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-border-force-runs-interment-sites-for-asylum-seekers/713965/25 "2015-03-02T03:17:37Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > I would say that “Internment Camp” was equal to Guantanamo or the gulags (or in UK and US histories, the interment of Japanese American citizens or the concentration of Boers.) Doesn’t seem to rise to the level of ‘Gestapo tactics’ though. However, reading through the article it doesn’t seem to be very professionally written or well sourced, so it has that in common. I’m not sure how long this thread will last…if the Mods are paying attention they are sure to see that you are basically putting this thread out as some sort of gotcha (in your own mind at least) to justify your failing position in the other thread on the horrible US ‘Blacksites’ and ‘Gestapo tactics’ and such. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-border-force-runs-interment-sites-for-asylum-seekers/713965/26 "2015-03-02T03:27:33Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > See what I did there? > > I posted a press article critical of a US state authority and 26 of the 29 responses on the first page were either defensive responses for the behaviour or criticisms of the original article. > > I then post a press article critical of a UK state authority and totally absent are real criticisms of the article or its contents. > > Where are the legions of people making ad nominee attacks and challenging the validity of the OP and follow ups. Why are the usual subjects missing in this thread and so present in the other? > > I wonder why that is. > > Surely it couldn’t be a nationalistic and xenophobic defensiveness about perceived outsiders questioning political holy cows. The situations in the 2 OPs you started aren’t comparable. The problems at Yarl’s Wood Detention Center have been investigated and verified by multiple sources (albeit some problems are ongoing). The Home Office isn’t issuing outright denials, and it appears that the issues continue to be addressed. There are numerous cites available with even a preliminary google search; most UK media has reported on it. The problems at Homan Square in Chicago are still only allegations, not yet investigated or proven. The Chicago Police Department has denied the allegations, and it is not clear yet if the story will develop further than we’ve seen this week. It’s really premature to have an informed opinion about it, much less “debate” whatever it is you intended with your question. Besides that, I still don’t see how either OP is framed as a debate. Are you attempting a social experiment to see how people respond to poorly developed debate questions? ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-border-force-runs-interment-sites-for-asylum-seekers/713965/27 "2015-03-02T08:10:52Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > Guardian Media Groups accounts from 2008. A profit of over £300 million and they still ended with a tax rebate: > > [https://autonomousmind.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/g52.jpg](https://autonomousmind.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/g52.jpg) > > Hypocrisy here: > > [http://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/feb/18/barclays-bank-113m-corporation-tax](http://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/feb/18/barclays-bank-113m-corporation-tax) > > The Guardian used the very same tax management strategy to avoid paying tax on it’s own sale of it’s share in AutoTrader. > > [http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/06/28/the-insufferable-hypocrisy-of-the-guardian-on-corporation-tax/](http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/06/28/the-insufferable-hypocrisy-of-the-guardian-on-corporation-tax/) > > The GMC profits in 2012-13 were £186 million. It paid £200,000 in tax. > > [http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/guardian-media-firm-makes-186m-but-pays-only-200000-tax-8675818.html](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/guardian-media-firm-makes-186m-but-pays-only-200000-tax-8675818.html) > > Offshore accounts here: > > [http://leftfootforward.org/2014/11/tax-havens-are-syphoning-money-away-from-our-public-services/](http://leftfootforward.org/2014/11/tax-havens-are-syphoning-money-away-from-our-public-services/) > > “Action Aid has published a database of FTSE 100 company use of subsidiaries in tax havens, which highlights the large-scale use of this tactic. The tax evasion activities of Amazon and Vodafone have received media coverage, but the Luxembourg Files and\*\* Action Aid data show that many other well-known household names are engaged in this practice: Eon, GlaxoSmithKline, Dyson, Burberry, Aviva, Prudential, HSBC, McGraw Hill and surprisingly, the Guardian Media Group.”\*\* Further details please of amounts in overseas accounts and reasons why. I could find no mention of off shore accounts in the accounts of the Scott Trust. Given the tax structure of a charity, I can see little advantage in holding money offshore. The Scott Trust pays little tax in the same way that every other charity does- the special status of charities, not because of the use of offshore banks. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-border-force-runs-interment-sites-for-asylum-seekers/713965/28 "2015-03-02T10:57:50Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > [Thanks to Channel 4, we see just how appallingly Yarl’s Wood detention centre shames Britain | The Independent | The Independent](http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/thanks-to-channel-4-we-now-see-just-how-appallingly-yarls-wood-detention-centre-shames-britain-10078817.html) > > This article alleges that the UK Border Force maintains internment camps for asylum seekers, the management of which that has resulted in serious harm and deaths of detainees with no legal protection. > > It cites it involves the toleration of rape by other detainees and by staff, beatings, illegalities and other human rights contravention, together with other problems of attitude and procedures by under-trained and poorly managed staff… You are correct, the article does allege those things, and cite those things. Still not seeing a debate here, nor anything new or shocking. The position of the Government, and of the majority of people in the UK, remains that detention camps for illegal immigrants are good, mistreatment of those detained is bad. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-border-force-runs-interment-sites-for-asylum-seekers/713965/29 "2015-03-02T11:57:54Z")
The Scott Trust does not exist and has not existed since 2008, when it was wound up and replaced with The Scott Trust Limited, a private limited company. Even when the Scott Trust did exist, it was not a charitable trust. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-border-force-runs-interment-sites-for-asylum-seekers/713965/30 "2015-03-02T14:24:31Z")
\*\*UK Border Force runs “Interment Sites” for Asylum Seekers? \*\* So the debate is that these allegations are worse than the USer Detention Blacksite Scandal, seeing that UKers are _burying_ the Asylum Seekers? Or is it not as bad, since UKers allow them immediate access to lawyers _before_ burying them? Of course, if they’re buried alive it’s arguably worse. I hope these vital points can be fleshed out without undue regard for patriotic sensibilities. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-border-force-runs-interment-sites-for-asylum-seekers/713965/31 "2015-03-02T14:34:45Z")
… Cornwall has a flag? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-border-force-runs-interment-sites-for-asylum-seekers/713965/32 "2015-03-02T14:38:47Z")
Interment > **[Definition of INTERMENT](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/interment)** > > the act or ceremony of interring… See the full definition > [@](#): > > interment > > noun in·ter·ment \in-ˈtər-mənt\ > > : the act of burying a dead person Inter **N** ment > **[Thesaurus results for INTERNMENT](https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/internment)** > > Synonyms for INTERNMENT: captivity, incarceration, imprisonment, confinement, prison, impoundment, enslavement, servitude; Antonyms of INTERNMENT: liberation, release, redemption, emancipation, freedom, liberty, independence, manumission > [@](#): > > internment > > Definition of INTERNMENT > the act of confining or the state of being confined \ ETA: I see that **Jackmannii** beat me to it. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-border-force-runs-interment-sites-for-asylum-seekers/713965/33 "2015-03-02T15:08:13Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > … Cornwall has a flag? [Yep.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Piran%27s_Flag) I’m going to start flying [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Nottinghamshire), though. No idea how many other counties or regions have flags, but the Rose emblems of Yorkshire and Lancashire are pretty famous as well. It’s not that different to the individual States in the US having flags, especially for places like Cornwall or Yorkshire with a strong regional identity. I’d be slightly more surprised if, say, Rutland has a flag though. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-border-force-runs-interment-sites-for-asylum-seekers/713965/34 "2015-03-02T15:10:20Z")
Oooh! Somerset [has one too](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Somerset)! ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-border-force-runs-interment-sites-for-asylum-seekers/713965/35 "2015-03-02T15:22:36Z")
It’s surprising how new they all are. Quite possibly the independence/devolution campaigns have prompted a stronger sense of regional identity across the UK. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-border-force-runs-interment-sites-for-asylum-seekers/713965/36 "2015-03-02T15:58:26Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Oooh! Somerset [has one too](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Somerset)! I think they should have kept the mace, but I might be biased… ---
**Author:** ![Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ac8455/32.png) [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Your_Great_Darsh_Face)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-border-force-runs-interment-sites-for-asylum-seekers/713965/37 "2015-03-02T16:04:24Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > [Yep.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Piran%27s_Flag) > > I’m going to start flying [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Nottinghamshire), though. No idea how many other counties or regions have flags, but the Rose emblems of Yorkshire and Lancashire are pretty famous as well. > > It’s not that different to the individual States in the US having flags, especially for places like Cornwall or Yorkshire with a strong regional identity. I’d be slightly more surprised if, say, Rutland has a flag though. It does. The drawback is, the flag is slightly larger than the county. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-border-force-runs-interment-sites-for-asylum-seekers/713965/38 "2015-03-02T16:10:09Z")
I’m pretty sure every county, city and town in the US has its own flag. Certainly most do. [Here are the ones in CA.](http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/us-camun.html). That proves the practice is evil. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-border-force-runs-interment-sites-for-asylum-seekers/713965/39 "2015-03-02T16:35:37Z")
[Pjen’s cite:](http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/thanks-to-channel-4-we-now-see-just-how-appallingly-yarls-wood-detention-centre-shames-britain-10078817.html) > [@](#): > > It was 50 years ago, on 8 March 1965, that American combat troops landed on Nam O Beach in Da Nang to join the civil war between the South Vietnamese and the Communist North Vietnamese. Ten years later the war ended with three million Vietnamese and 58,000 American soldiers dead. Two thirds of the Vietnamese were civilians; the US soldiers were conscripts. Some died terrible deaths in traps set for them in the jungle and many others never recovered from the trauma. US planes sprayed Agent Orange over fields to destroy the land. A large number of babies thereafter were born with terrible deformities. [Facility’s site:](http://www.yarlswood.co.uk/book-a-visit/social-visit) > [@](#): > > Social visits are an important part of a resident’s day and we encourage their friends and family outside the centre to make the most of these important times together. > Visits give our residents the opportunity to see familiar faces and discuss how they feel. For family and friends, it gives the chance to hear first hand about the facilities and activities available to our residents and reassures them that we are taking every care of the needs and concerns of their loved ones. > > Social visits take place in our large, tastefully decorated visits room, complete with soft seating and low coffee tables. We provide a self-vend café bar for both visitors and residents and there is a small garden where residents can sit with their visitors if they prefer. Our aim is to make both residents and visitors feel comfortable and better able to enjoy the visit. Pjen, go for a few visits, and then get back to us with what you have learned. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-border-force-runs-interment-sites-for-asylum-seekers/713965/40 "2015-03-02T16:38:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m pretty sure every county, city and town in the US has its own flag. Certainly most do. [Here are the ones in CA.](http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/us-camun.html). That proves the practice is evil. A lot of those are marked as having no known flag. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-border-force-runs-interment-sites-for-asylum-seekers/713965.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-border-force-runs-interment-sites-for-asylum-seekers/713965.md?page=3)