# UK Chancellor in very hot water **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 8, 2017, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-chancellor-in-very-hot-water/781662 "2017-03-08T00:27:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-chancellor-in-very-hot-water/781662/1 "2017-03-08T00:27:25Z")
Guardian article [here](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/07/surrey-council-leader-had-gentlemans-agreement-with-ministers): > [@](#): > > David Hodge, the leader of Surrey council, told Conservative colleagues that a “gentleman’s agreement” had been reached with senior cabinet ministers that persuaded him to cancel a threat to raise council tax by 15%. > > In a secret recording of a Conservative group meeting on 7 February, the politician revealed there had been a “series of conversations” with the communities secretary, Sajid Javid, in a car outside Downing street. That was followed by a second meeting with the chancellor, Philip Hammond, he said. And Theresa May, the Prime Minister, was caught out at [Prime Minister’s Questions](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/feb/08/jeremy-corbyn-accuses-may-of-sweetheart-deal-surrey-council-tax): > [@](#): > > The Labour leader caught May off guard as he read out leaked text messages from David Hodge, the Surrey county council leader, which showed him confidentially discussing a “memorandum of understanding” between the local authority and government. > > Corbyn quoted one text message in which Hodge had said: “If it is possible for that info to be sent to myself I can then revert back soonest, really want to kill this off”. > > He asked May: “How much did the government offer Surrey to ‘kill this off’, and is the same sweetheart deal on offer to every council facing the social care crisis created by this government?” > > May refused six times to answer Corbyn’s direct questions about what Surrey council had been offered and accused the opposition leader of using “alternative facts”. But several hours later, ministers confirmed that Surrey council had agreed to take part in a trial allowing the council to retain local business rates to fund social care from 2018. I wonder, has a Chancellor ever resigned on the day of a Budget? Or will Javid be the scapegoat? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-chancellor-in-very-hot-water/781662/2 "2017-03-08T00:38:30Z")
Can you translate this reporting: > [@](#): > > persuaded him to cancel a threat to raise council tax by 15% ? Now obviously “council tax” refers to a local tax of some sort. But does this mean that the Crown\* is asking to take more from the local councils, or is threatening to increase their own tax on local authorities? \*or insert whatever term is appropriate in “state’s rights vs. federal gov’t arguments” here. ---
**Author:** ![Kiwi\_Fruit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kiwi_fruit/32/12_2.png) [@Kiwi\_Fruit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiwi_Fruit)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-chancellor-in-very-hot-water/781662/3 "2017-03-08T01:31:17Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Can you translate this reporting: ? > > Now obviously “council tax” refers to a local tax of some sort. But does this mean that the Crown\* is asking to take more from the local councils, or is threatening to increase their own tax on local authorities? > > \*or insert whatever term is appropriate in “state’s rights vs. federal gov’t arguments” here. There’s a Wikipedia article about [council tax](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_Tax). It’s what residents pay to the local council. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-chancellor-in-very-hot-water/781662/4 "2017-03-08T01:43:27Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Now obviously “council tax” refers to a local tax of some sort. But does this mean that the Crown\* is asking to take more from the local councils, or is threatening to increase their own tax on local authorities? There is a great deal of concern that local councils are underfunded and this is affecting their ability to provide services. This (Conservative) local council was considering holding a referendum to canvas support for raising its local tax 15%. This would look very bad for the (Conservative) national government, since it would be blamed for underfunding the council, which would resonate with large numbers of other councils all round the country who all claim to be underfunded. The suggestion is that the national government effectively “paid off” this one council to bury the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-chancellor-in-very-hot-water/781662/5 "2017-03-08T01:44:41Z")
> [@Kiwi\_Fruit](#): > > There’s a Wikipedia article about [council tax](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_Tax). It’s what residents pay to the local council. Right. I know that there are council taxes that are relatively analogous to property taxes in the US but was not %100 certain if there was some other meaning. I still don’t know how a chancellor can threaten to raise them 15% since in the US the states and counties control local taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-chancellor-in-very-hot-water/781662/6 "2017-03-08T01:54:02Z")
Nope, you have the wrong end of the stick. Ready my post. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-chancellor-in-very-hot-water/781662/7 "2017-03-08T07:49:38Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Can you translate this reporting: ? > > Now obviously “council tax” refers to a local tax of some sort. But does this mean that the Crown\* is asking to take more from the local councils, or is threatening to increase their own tax on local authorities? > > \*or insert whatever term is appropriate in “state’s rights vs. federal gov’t arguments” here. No, it’s nothing like that. There is no equivalent of states’ rights - all the authority, and much of the funding, for local councils comes from central government. Councils can only raise money through methods sanctioned by central government, such as the Council Tax and what are called ‘business rates’, which are both types of property tax. ---
**Author:** ![Kiwi\_Fruit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kiwi_fruit/32/12_2.png) [@Kiwi\_Fruit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiwi_Fruit)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-chancellor-in-very-hot-water/781662/8 "2017-03-08T21:59:39Z")
> [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](#): > > No, it’s nothing like that. There is no equivalent of states’ rights - all the authority, and much of the funding, for local councils comes from central government. Councils can only raise money through methods sanctioned by central government, such as the Council Tax and what are called ‘business rates’, which are both types of property tax. Great username-subject concordance. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-chancellor-in-very-hot-water/781662/9 "2017-03-09T01:01:51Z")
Well, he’s delivered his budget and it seems to have been well-received by the Tory MPs, so he may have escaped. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-chancellor-in-very-hot-water/781662/10 "2017-03-10T22:50:06Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I wonder, has a Chancellor ever resigned on the day of a Budget? Hugh Dalton had to resign in 1947 after responding to a leading question from a journalist about the likely price of beer after the Budget. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-chancellor-in-very-hot-water/781662/11 "2017-03-10T23:41:52Z")
Quartz - you start some very curious threads. I have no idea why this storm in a media cup merits SDMB attention. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-chancellor-in-very-hot-water/781662/12 "2017-03-11T00:32:46Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Quartz - you start some very curious threads. I have no idea why this storm in a media cup merits SDMB attention. Why shouldn’t it? Think of it like Trump talking to Russia. And it seems that far from the Budget being well received, Hammond has put his foot right in it with increasing National Insurance Contributions - essentially a tax - for the self-employed. The self-employed are Tory voters and target voters. The backtracking has been thunderous. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-chancellor-in-very-hot-water/781662/13 "2017-03-11T01:05:53Z")
“Trump talking to Russia”. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-chancellor-in-very-hot-water/781662/14 "2017-03-11T09:39:22Z")
No president should ever speak or have spoken to foreigners — it destroys the pristine innocence of their childlike minds. ---
**Author:** ![Nansbread1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Nansbread1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nansbread1)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-chancellor-in-very-hot-water/781662/15 "2017-03-11T10:24:32Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Why shouldn’t it? Think of it like Trump talking to Russia. And it seems that far from the Budget being well received, Hammond has put his foot right in it with increasing National Insurance Contributions - essentially a tax - for the self-employed. The self-employed are Tory voters and target voters. The backtracking has been thunderous. This is basically a USA centric board for political threads. No one cares about our council tax. Hammond who? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-chancellor-in-very-hot-water/781662/16 "2017-03-11T13:20:46Z")
Commenting on the worthiness of a thread is a version of threadshitting. If you think a topic isn’t worth your time, ignore it. > [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Quartz - you start some very curious threads. I have no idea why this storm in a media cup merits SDMB attention. ---
**Author:** ![JustinC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justinc/32/8083_2.png) [@JustinC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustinC)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-chancellor-in-very-hot-water/781662/17 "2017-03-11T19:54:19Z")
A Chancellor recommending a county council (which is of the same Party) not put up taxes by 15% isn’t really controversial. That he (Hammond) said a local vote isn’t a good idea is a bit thick - the results could be very interesting and lead to progressive taxation on property (which many in the UK would agree is a step in the right direction) - but won’t land him anywhere near hot water as those benefiting from high property prices in the UK, especially in the SE, donate plenty to his Party (and him and his family/friends, **allegedly** ).