# UK Dopers, and anyone else following the story - do you think Jimmy Saville "dun it"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 2, 2012, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-and-anyone-else-following-the-story-do-you-think-jimmy-saville-dun-it/636444 "2012-10-02T01:04:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-and-anyone-else-following-the-story-do-you-think-jimmy-saville-dun-it/636444/161 "2012-10-30T04:23:30Z")
Seriously? Ok in that case I really can’t see how going after teenagers WHO WERE STIL IN SCHOOL FOR GODS SAKE could possibly have been ok. But still it seems to have been. BUT THEY WERE STILL CANING SCHOOL PUPILS THEN, RIGHT? aggghghghgh this is genuinely alien thinking. Honestlyt sounds like a different country. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-and-anyone-else-following-the-story-do-you-think-jimmy-saville-dun-it/636444/162 "2012-10-30T09:56:40Z")
More naivete from the BBC, but quite amusing: a radio presenter unwittingly read out a crude joke about Savile in a text: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/2Lj8Qtkred8/hqdefault.jpg "BBC Radio Ulster presenter repeats Jimmy Savile joke") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Lj8Qtkred8) Milk a cow blind-folded indeed… ---
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Imp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58956e/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Imp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Imp)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-and-anyone-else-following-the-story-do-you-think-jimmy-saville-dun-it/636444/163 "2012-10-30T11:37:04Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > Seems very unlikely to me that Billie Piper suffered at the hands of paedophiles like Savile. She was too busy having her 17 year old nipple slips printed in newspapers before marrying a fifty-something ginger guy at 18. 😃 I’m no fan, but Chris Evans was 34 when he married her, not fifty-something. And to be fair, he was incredibly rich. Dunno what she saw in him 😉 > [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > Seriously? > > Ok in that case I really can’t see how going after teenagers WHO WERE STIL IN SCHOOL FOR GODS SAKE could possibly have been ok. The “naughty, sexy schoolgirl” is, and was, a meme. Young, rebellious and up for it, to the eyes of some. > [@Colophon](#): > > More naivete from the BBC, but quite amusing: a radio presenter unwittingly read out a crude joke about Savile in a text: > [http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2Lj8Qtkred8](http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2Lj8Qtkred8) > > Milk a cow blind-folded indeed… Took me a second 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-and-anyone-else-following-the-story-do-you-think-jimmy-saville-dun-it/636444/164 "2012-10-30T12:06:56Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > BUT THEY WERE STILL CANING SCHOOL PUPILS THEN, RIGHT? > > aggghghghgh this is genuinely alien thinking. Honestlyt sounds like a different country. /aside. As I said to someone at a faculty lecture the other day, having been a school pupil in those days I can honestly say that there was far worse to worry about than the smallish possibility of getting the cane - I received less than one corporal punishment per year and it was always less severe than the cane. Reading literature from the time when it was more common, such as _Stalky & Co_ and _The Moon’s a Balloon_, caning was a thing to be avoided if possible but not an OMFGCHILDABUSE!!one! issue - in the latter book, the author received twelve strokes of the cane for cheating in his School Certificate examination (knowing he had already failed, and wanting to get away from his now-useless last paper early to go and meet a prostitute) and, while by no means laughing it off, considered it a welcome alternative to expulsion and disqualification from the exam programme. Of course, we’re now more humane and kids these days think nothing of asking a teaching assistant they don’t like if they’re into granny porn and like shit all over the end of their dick. ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-and-anyone-else-following-the-story-do-you-think-jimmy-saville-dun-it/636444/165 "2012-10-30T12:21:09Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > aggghghghgh Now then, now then! How’s about we lay off the Jimmy Sa-vile impersonations? This isn’t a tribute thread. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-and-anyone-else-following-the-story-do-you-think-jimmy-saville-dun-it/636444/166 "2012-10-30T13:03:28Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > Well to be totally fair, remember a lot of this so-called paedophilia is just sexism and if you think that 70s were fine with sex with young girls, a conclusion I have basically come to, then actually a lot of this is perfectly fine behaviour by the morals of the time. > > For example here’s a video that’s just come out of Jimmy Savile [“groping a teen”](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imT3U0LFRTM) live on TV. > > (Said teen is nineteen in the vid by the way) > > Anyone who did that these days would be sacked. But back in the 70s it seems to me that you could go around pinching girl’s bottoms. > > So I’m starting to really think that 80-90% of this is not to do with Savile and is just what all men were like in the 1970s, with the difference that he liked younger women - but also that in the 1970s “younger women” meant 14 rather than say 18. > > And thus a huge amount of this is just everyone realising that behaviour in the 1970s was wrong. I hesitate to write that sentence because I am reluctant to judge the behaviour of other ages by our standards, but there we are. I agree that morals/rules/standards were less strict in regards to sex in the 1970’s, and if this were a story about a guy who merely hit on and goosed _women_ back in the day, it would be dead by now. In regards to children/hospital patients/the dead, however, those sexual taboos have always been around (in varying degrees of force, yes - here in the US we had the [Baby Burlesks](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_Burlesks) films back in the '30s, one featuring a 4yo Shirley Temple running around in bra and panties. [/quote] ) So I agree that blaming the era doesn’t really feel right as what he is accused of doing was probably taboo among cavemen. Like I said, it’s the “waiting for over 30 years until the man is dead _then_ mass confessional” aspect of this case that interests/confuses me about this. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-and-anyone-else-following-the-story-do-you-think-jimmy-saville-dun-it/636444/167 "2012-10-30T13:21:09Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > No bloody way. There is serious paedophile hysteria here. But I would say there is a slight difference in what is “too young”. > > However as I said in my earlier post then in the 1970s there was a wilful ignorance about sexism, and also wilful ignorance about what is a child (I’m going to guess the cut off in the 70s was around 13 - bear in mind you could leave school aged 14 back then). So they wouldn’t have seen it as child abuse back them, just being a sexist pig which was not as bad back then either. > > I hope we don’t end up going too far with with this and making it so you have to be 21 to drink. We already raised the age of cigarette buying to 18 not so long ago. I was basically allowed to do whatever I liked from the age of 14 onwards and I think everyone would be better off if that was the case for everyone. Yeah, we Yanks had this (pedo mania) in the '80s - looks like it’s your turn. Laura’s (and mine) question about the “culture of willful ignorance” was brought about by a chapter re: pedophilia in the public school system (schools like Eton, etc) in a book she read a couple of years ago, '[The Anglo Files](http://www.amazon.com/The-Anglo-Files-Field-British/dp/0393334767). (In case you’re wondering where this idea of “willful ignorance” came from.) ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-and-anyone-else-following-the-story-do-you-think-jimmy-saville-dun-it/636444/168 "2012-10-30T13:49:07Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Libel laws are much, much stricter in the uk than the usa - american celebrities sometimes choose to sue for libel over here rather than at home if both were an option, even occasionally when the uk connection is tenuous. This is one of the main reasons given for the media not printing stories about savile - he would have bankrupted them. This right here. In the US, people say all the time how McDonald’s serves crap food, unhealthy stuff, how you’re poisoning your kids if you feed them that garbage, etc. One guy made a somewhat controversial [documentary](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Size_Me) about what happened if he ate there every day for a month **and** accepted every super-size suggestion. If McDonald’s even bothers to acknowledge these things, they just tout their healthy alternatives, say it’s part of a well-balanced overall nutritional plan for your kids, minimize the claims, etc. In England back in 1986, an extremely tiny environmental group put out a pamphlet criticizing McDonald’s environmental damage, working with questionable governments, animal treatment, and unhealthy food. McDonald’s response to a few people handing out this pamphlet in London? Send spies to infiltrate the group, steal documents, break into offices, and [sue the leaders of the group for libel](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLibel_case). In the UK, the defendant has to prove that every statement they made was **literally** true, so these not-well-off individuals had to fend for themselves (with a little pro bono help, but not much) in their defense, and McDonald’s outspent them by huge amounts - several million vs 30,000 pounds. It went through multiple courts over the span of almost 20 years, and finally the European Court of Human Rights declared that originally the defendants were not given a fair trial and should have been given access to Legal Aid, and that the government should pay them 57,000 pounds. McDonald’s was mostly fine, though lots of info about their environmental/worker treatment/animal treatment/nutritional practices got out there which wasn’t good PR for them. Now given that kind of atmosphere where you are worried that someone with tons of money and popularity will accuse you of libel and force you to **prove** what you say - I am not at all surprised that these women who’d been molested as little girls wouldn’t say a word. How many could prove years later that some media celebrity did terrible things to them? ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-and-anyone-else-following-the-story-do-you-think-jimmy-saville-dun-it/636444/169 "2012-10-30T15:05:47Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I agree that morals/rules/standards were less strict in regards to sex in the 1970’s, and if this were a story about a guy who merely hit on and goosed _women_ back in the day, it would be dead by now. In regards to children/hospital patients/the dead, however, those sexual taboos have always been around (in varying degrees of force, yes - here in the US we had the [Baby Burlesks](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_Burlesks) films back in the '30s, one featuring a 4yo Shirley Temple running around in bra and panties. ) So I agree that blaming the era doesn’t really feel right as what he is accused of doing was probably taboo among cavemen. Like I said, it’s the “waiting for over 30 years until the man is dead _then_ mass confessional” aspect of this case that interests/confuses me about this. [/QUOTE] I disagree. He selected girls who were well into puberty, not pre-pubescents; I doubt that was a taboo in caveman times - it’s not even a taboo everywhere now. Most of the accusations are about girls only a couple of years under the age of consent (16). Back when I was 13-16, twenty years ago, it was definitely considered normal for grown men to fancy those teenagers. Hell, even having sex with them wasn’t seen as that odd, at least not by everyone, as it seems to be now. Having sex with helpless hospital patients and the dead is obviously different, but bear in mind that the dead couldn’t complain and the patients would have been even less likely to be believed. Some of the other girls he targeted were the kind who were less likely to be believed, too, like the remand school girl he boasts about in his autobiography. I think you’re underestimating just how difficult it is for a teenage girl to admit she’s been raped or sexually abused. This is not a complete stranger dragging a straight-A student into the bushes as she walks home from church - the girls he picked would not have been believed and they would have suffered (possibly a lot) from trying to report the crime. > [@JohnT](#): > > Yeah, we Yanks had this (pedo mania) in the '80s - looks like it’s your turn. Oh, trust me, we’ve had paedomania for a long, long time here too. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-and-anyone-else-following-the-story-do-you-think-jimmy-saville-dun-it/636444/170 "2012-10-30T15:56:28Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > How about when MASH hit our screens? This was popular, so a paperback book was printed. It’s so long ago that I can’t remember the exact details, but Pierce and Hawkeye had not yet met at the beginning of the book. One of them was already serving in Korea, the other got drafted. The one who got drafted was supposed to be a legend, partly for raping a beauty queen on a train journey - this was seen as funny and awesome in the book and made the rapist seem like an unconventional hero. No ‘Trapper’ got his nickname because he was having sex in a public place and the girl blurted out to the surprise witness, ‘he trapped me’. There was no suggestion it was rape, just a limp excuse from an embarrassed girl. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-and-anyone-else-following-the-story-do-you-think-jimmy-saville-dun-it/636444/171 "2012-10-30T21:15:26Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > More naivete from the BBC, but quite amusing: a radio presenter unwittingly read out a crude joke about Savile in a text: > [http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2Lj8Qtkred8](http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2Lj8Qtkred8) > > Milk a cow blind-folded indeed… Can someone explain to the thick American? ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-and-anyone-else-following-the-story-do-you-think-jimmy-saville-dun-it/636444/172 "2012-10-30T22:42:05Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > Can someone explain to the thick American? Imagine you are a child who wants to milk a cow. Now imagine Jimmy saying, sure you can milk a cow, but you have to do it blind-folded. Now, further imagine that you are now blind-folded and performing a vigorous “milking” action on what you are assured is a cow’s firm, warm udder. In a room. With Jimmy Savile. Would you like cream with that? ---
**Author:** ![Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8c91f0/32.png) [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bam_Boo_Gut)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-and-anyone-else-following-the-story-do-you-think-jimmy-saville-dun-it/636444/173 "2012-10-31T00:12:57Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > ) > I think you’re underestimating just how difficult it is for a teenage girl to admit she’s been raped or sexually abused. The trauma associated with trying to press charges is huge and can go on for years. Say a girl makes an allegation at 12, it can be years in her young life before the case is heard. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-and-anyone-else-following-the-story-do-you-think-jimmy-saville-dun-it/636444/174 "2012-10-31T07:16:47Z")
**Colophon** : I figured, but wanted to make sure there wasn’t a pun I was missing. Anyway, ugh. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-and-anyone-else-following-the-story-do-you-think-jimmy-saville-dun-it/636444/175 "2012-10-31T08:07:11Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > )Oh, trust me, we’ve had paedomania for a long, long time here too. Including notable highlights such as angry mobs attacking Paediatricians. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-and-anyone-else-following-the-story-do-you-think-jimmy-saville-dun-it/636444/176 "2012-10-31T08:15:18Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > No ‘Trapper’ got his nickname because he was having sex in a public place and the girl blurted out to the surprise witness, ‘he trapped me’. There was no suggestion it was rape, just a limp excuse from an embarrassed girl. To be fair, the back of the book says “raped a beauty queen”, but the book text and other references to it later in canon all make it clear she was a willing participant and only yelled “He trapped me!” to cover her blushes. Not that I am saying that women ever lie about rape. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-and-anyone-else-following-the-story-do-you-think-jimmy-saville-dun-it/636444/177 "2012-11-01T16:08:35Z")
Another Savile groaner, courtesy of this week’s Popbitch: > [@](#): > > Eric Clapton has just been saying how Savile’s career really took off in 1967 when, backstage at Top of the Pops, he introduced Cream to the Small Faces. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-and-anyone-else-following-the-story-do-you-think-jimmy-saville-dun-it/636444/178 "2012-11-02T00:36:45Z")
Is there a particular reason “dun it” is in quotes in the thread title? ---
**Author:** ![Bakhesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Bakhesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bakhesh)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-and-anyone-else-following-the-story-do-you-think-jimmy-saville-dun-it/636444/179 "2012-11-02T18:33:54Z")
[Newsnight To Out A ‘Senior Political Figure’ As Paedophile](http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/11/02/newsnight-senior-political-figure-paedophile_n_2064582.html?utm_hp_ref=uk) Any guesses? ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-and-anyone-else-following-the-story-do-you-think-jimmy-saville-dun-it/636444/180 "2012-11-02T18:44:33Z")
Betfair have got Ken Clarke at odds of 6/4 and you can get 2/1 for Leon Brittan. Most punters seem to be throwing a few quid on Peter Mandelson at 100/1, more out of hope than anything. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-and-anyone-else-following-the-story-do-you-think-jimmy-saville-dun-it/636444.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-and-anyone-else-following-the-story-do-you-think-jimmy-saville-dun-it/636444.md?page=10)