# UK Dopers: comment on US Healthcare System **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 15, 2018, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861 "2018-02-15T08:20:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Batano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@Batano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batano)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/1 "2018-02-15T08:20:44Z")
A companion thread to this one: [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=848662](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=848662) Please give your opinion of the US healthcare system. Bonus points if you have never experienced it, cherry pick anecdotes from the web, or use quotes from Fox News or the Nation Enquirer. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/2 "2018-02-15T08:29:32Z")
LOL. Magiver does seem to be rehearsing for a run at a Senate role. Where, of course, he would get free healthcare. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/3 "2018-02-15T09:08:52Z")
Oh, so those of us who have actual experience of having to spend a couple of weeks wading through the paperwork after a blood draw (a! fucking! blood! draw!) aren’t called in? Pity. Because I’ve experienced healthcare under multiple models including through my travel insurance, and nowhere else were the procedures as painful or the prices as absurd as in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/4 "2018-02-15T09:11:47Z")
I believe that there are many incidents of deaths from bear attack in the USA, what’s up with that? To the best of my knowledge no-one in a UK hospital has ever died from bear attack. How exactly can the USA consider itself the best system in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/5 "2018-02-15T09:34:04Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I believe that there are many incidents of deaths from bear attack in the USA, what’s up with that? To the best of my knowledge no-one in a UK hospital has ever died from bear attack. How exactly can the USA consider itself the best system in the world. The problem does not lie so much with the healthcare system. It’s just that the U.S. Constitution conveys inalienable rights to bear arms, so it’s impossible for the authorities to intervene when a bear starts using his paws too. And, of course, the marmalade is so inferior here that the bears are just in a foul temper much of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/6 "2018-02-15T09:37:50Z")
But are they allowed to arm bears, or must the armed bears make do with their inborn equipment, no upgrades? ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/7 "2018-02-15T09:48:36Z")
The US doesn’t have a healthcare system. It tries to run every system, with little attempt at standardization. Medicare is a NI type system, the VHA is Beveridge, insurance through employers is Bismark. The US often tinkers with the systems, and is particularly fond of taking off the safeties before running a system. The Bismarck parts lack the legislation that extend coverage, the VHA does not have the media interest feedback system of the Beveridge nations, etc. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/8 "2018-02-15T11:48:58Z")
Not a UK doper, but 1. As might be expected from the richest country in the world, the US has a large and amazingly advanced system, with cutting edge treatments which extend life and improve general living standards. 2. The costs of the US system are such that even middle and upper class people can take a massive financial hit from merely medical bills and working class and poor might be unable to pay for even fairly rudimentary stuff. Not to be expected, from the richest country in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/9 "2018-02-15T12:40:12Z")
I once took my car to a garage in the UK and was told that a warning light was due to a transmission fault, and would be an expensive repair. Fortunately I took it to a second garage, who correctly identified it as a very easy repair indeed. From this I must conclude that the US health model is failing. If you believe this is not the case, I am afraid your beliefs are anecdotal so should not be considered. For further information, please reread. ---
**Author:** ![Batano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@Batano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batano)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/10 "2018-02-15T12:42:46Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > I once took my car to a garage in the UK and was told that a warning light was due to a transmission fault, and would be an expensive repair. Fortunately I took it to a second garage, who correctly identified it as a very easy repair indeed. > > From this I must conclude that the US health model is failing. If you believe this is not the case, I am afraid your beliefs are anecdotal so should not be considered. > > For further information, please reread. Can’t argue with that. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/11 "2018-02-15T13:03:58Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Not a UK doper, but > > 1. As might be expected from the richest country in the world, the US has a large and amazingly advanced system, with cutting edge treatments which extend life and improve general living standards. > > 2. The costs of the US system are such that even middle and upper class people can take a massive financial hit from merely medical bills and working class and poor might be unable to pay for even fairly rudimentary stuff. Not to be expected, from the richest country in the world. It’s not just the fact that costs are prohibitive; it’s that the system is so bizarre and labyrinthine compared to anything you’d find anywhere else on the planet. I knew one guy with a chronically upset stomach. The doctor’s office determined that it wasn’t an emergency so they asked him to schedule an appointment to get a better understanding of what it was that was bothering him – 6 weeks from the date he called. And yet now “insurers” like Anthem are saying that if you go to the emergency room and it just so happens they determine that it’s not an emergency, you’re on the hook for $10,000 - 15,000. The healthcare system is just another example of how Americans tolerate being kicked in the fucking skull repeatedly. Not because we enjoy being kicked in the skull, but because we’re too dumb to realize it. There ought to be more outrage that we can’t change the system; instead, when Obama or any other democrat proposes changing the system, there’s more outrage at the idea that someone’s preparing to change anything at all. I mean, good fucking grief…we really and truly get the government we deserve. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/12 "2018-02-15T13:57:59Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > But are they allowed to arm bears, or must the armed bears make do with their inborn equipment, no upgrades? The latter, from whence comes the phrase “I killed him with my bear hands” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/13 "2018-02-15T16:12:35Z")
I’m a UK citizen who has lived in the US for 20 years. If cost is no object, the US has the best healthcare system in the world, bar none. More medicines are developed here and more procedures are trialed here than anywhere else. Unfortunately, in the real world where funds are not unlimited, the system sucks. ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/14 "2018-02-15T16:18:52Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I’m a UK citizen who has lived in the US for 20 years. If cost is no object, the US has the best healthcare system in the world, bar none. More medicines are developed here and more procedures are trialed here than anywhere else. Actually, if you adjust for population size, the UK does slightly better. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/15 "2018-02-15T16:33:48Z")
> [@Grim\_Render](#): > > Actually, if you adjust for population size, the UK does slightly better. Sure, but that’s irrelevant in the context of discussing national health care systems. The US system develops more new stuff than any others. If the UK had the US’ resources, it would probably lead the world, but it doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/16 "2018-02-15T16:44:42Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Sure, but that’s irrelevant in the context of discussing national health care systems. The US system develops more new stuff than any others. If the UK had the US’ resources, it would probably lead the world, but it doesn’t. I don’t know if it is. The UKs system is clearly better at fostering innovation, since per person it outperforms the US at half the cost. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/17 "2018-02-15T16:57:17Z")
Half the cost of what? If the NHS paid for all UK pharmaceutical development, you would have a point, but it doesn’t. Glaxo _et al._ sell most of their drugs in the US, and most of their R&D budget comes from US sales. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/18 "2018-02-15T17:09:39Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Half the cost of what? If the NHS paid for all UK pharmaceutical development, you would have a point, but it doesn’t. Glaxo _et al._ sell most of their drugs in the US, and most of their R&D budget comes from US sales. Utterly irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/19 "2018-02-15T17:38:46Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I’m a UK citizen who has lived in the US for 20 years. If cost is no object, the US has the best healthcare system in the world, bar none. More medicines are developed here and more procedures are trialed here than anywhere else. > > Unfortunately, in the real world where funds are not unlimited, the system sucks. Do we really have the best system? We don’t have electronic medical records for the most part. In places like France of Taiwan you get a medical card with all your medical history on it. In the US you have to start from scratch with each new provider. Plus in the US, medical care is the 3rd leading cause of death behind heart attacks and cancer. We have tons of problems with mistakes, drug interactions, hospital acquired infections, etc. Is this the case in other western nations? Also we do not mandate evidence based medicine from what I’ve seen. A good chunk of the medical care provided here isn’t actually effective. In places like the UK don’t they mandate health care be proven effective before the NHS will cover it? I have trouble believing we have the best system. We have a very large country, which means you will find more specialists if you can afford them. But our system has a lot of flaws. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/20 "2018-02-15T17:39:33Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Half the cost of what? If the NHS paid for all UK pharmaceutical development, you would have a point, but it doesn’t. Glaxo _et al._ sell most of their drugs in the US, and most of their R&D budget comes from US sales. Its actually fairly difficult to acertain exactly just who and what paid for research. Big Pharma owns and has links with labs world over. They might pay a lab in Hyderabad India to conduct research. Or they might might take forward a molecule identified by a lab in Hyderabad Pakistan, and ask a lab in Huddersfield, UK to develop a deliverable version, then have their Hamburg office design the manufacturing process, which is set up in Houston, while an affiliate in Huainan, China, does large scale trials. (Above example is way less complicated then the normal process incidentally). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861.md?page=2)