# UK Dopers: comment on US Healthcare System **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 15, 2018, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861 "2018-02-15T08:20:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/21 "2018-02-15T17:56:28Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Do we really have the best system? > > We don’t have electronic medical records for the most part. In places like France of Taiwan you get a medical card with all your medical history on it. In the US you have to start from scratch with each new provider. > > Plus in the US, medical care is the 3rd leading cause of death behind heart attacks and cancer. We have tons of problems with mistakes, drug interactions, hospital acquired infections, etc. Is this the case in other western nations? > > Also we do not mandate evidence based medicine from what I’ve seen. A good chunk of the medical care provided here isn’t actually effective. In places like the UK don’t they mandate health care be proven effective before the NHS will cover it? > > I have trouble believing we have the best system. We have a very large country, which means you will find more specialists if you can afford them. But our system has a lot of flaws. As I said, we have the best system if cost is no object. In that case, it’s trivially easy to find a medical provider with electronic records and so forth. Is that true of all our providers? Absolutely not, which is why our system is not the best in any number of real-world scenarios. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/22 "2018-02-15T19:20:15Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > …In that case, it’s trivially easy to find a medical provider with electronic records and so forth… The U.S. medical records system is horribly badly organized. I had a major accident out of state last year, so I’ve experienced having to arrange continuity of care from the E.R. to the trauma center to various providers back home. There is no central database that providers can access. Providers seem to have no way to obtain somebody’s medical records in a timely fashion even in an emergency. The only way to get well organized medical records across all providers who have treated you is to keep them yourself. And I have experienced unreasonably long delays in getting my own medical records released to me from past providers. I now habitually start the process of requesting records be sent to me (including radiology on disk) as I leave any facility where I have had treatment. If this were 1985, the system would be state of the art. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/23 "2018-02-15T19:29:42Z")
There is some database both my general practitioner and the pain guy can both access. Perhaps it is a state thing. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/24 "2018-02-15T19:45:59Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > As I said, we have the best system if cost is no object. In that case, it’s trivially easy to find a medical provider with electronic records and so forth. Is that true of all our providers? Absolutely not, which is why our system is not the best in any number of real-world scenarios. you go to France or Taiwan and you get a credit card you carry with you at all times. This card has your entire medical history on it, and any medical provider can scan it to get your medical history. We don’t have that in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/25 "2018-02-15T20:03:39Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Sure, but that’s irrelevant in the context of discussing national health care systems. The US system develops more new stuff than any others. If the UK had the US’ resources, it would probably lead the world, but it doesn’t. Actually, according to two of my former clients (one pharma, one parapharma) that’s greatly due to US agencies requiring fresh paperwork for everything. Other countries don’t, so passing EU or Japanese or Australian… requirements once you’ve passed in the US is easier than the other way 'round, simply because you can reuse most of the documentation. > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > you go to France or Taiwan and you get a credit card you carry with you at all times. This card has your entire medical history on it, and any medical provider can scan it to get your medical history. We don’t have that in the US. If they’re like the ones in the Spanish system, the cards do not contain your medical history. What they do is give access to the computers which have it. And it’s not a credit card; it’s credit-card-sized but not a credit card. I promise you can’t use it to pay at the supermarket. ---
**Author:** ![Batano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@Batano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batano)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/26 "2018-02-16T05:23:47Z")
When my mother had surgery I had to go to the hospital where she had emergency treatment and pick up the records myself so I could give them to the new hospital. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/27 "2018-02-16T06:38:44Z")
Did they charge you for them? When I wanted my scans to show my doc back in Spain I was charged. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/28 "2018-02-16T07:02:05Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Not a UK doper, but > > 1. As might be expected from the richest country in the world, the US has a large and amazingly advanced system, with cutting edge treatments which extend life and improve general living standards. > > 2. The costs of the US system are such that even middle and upper class people can take a massive financial hit from merely medical bills and working class and poor might be unable to pay for even fairly rudimentary stuff. Not to be expected, from the richest country in the world. 1. Extend life, but no as much as the horrible socialist European systems. Probably because of your reason 2. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/29 "2018-02-16T07:04:31Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > As I said, we have the best system if cost is no object. In that case, it’s trivially easy to find a medical provider with electronic records and so forth. Is that true of all our providers? Absolutely not, which is why our system is not the best in any number of real-world scenarios. Within an HMO like Kaiser or my provider, which is quite large and has all the specialists you’d ever need, electronic records work really well. I have no idea if they can be exchanged with providers outside their network. And certainly not small ones. It is coming, but it is taking a while. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/30 "2018-02-16T07:06:32Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Half the cost of what? If the NHS paid for all UK pharmaceutical development, you would have a point, but it doesn’t. Glaxo _et al._ sell most of their drugs in the US, and most of their R&D budget comes from US sales. And their marketing budget is bigger than their R & D budget. If drug advertising was prohibited, like in many places, they’d have plenty for R&D and for buying small companies who innovate. ---
**Author:** ![Batano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@Batano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batano)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/31 "2018-02-16T08:21:16Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Within an HMO like Kaiser or my provider, which is quite large and has all the specialists you’d ever need, electronic records work really well. I have no idea if they can be exchanged with providers outside their network. And certainly not small ones. It is coming, but it is taking a while. Speaking of Kaiser, they made a mistake on one of my tests and put “there is evidence of serious disease” rather than “there is NO evidence of serious disease”. Took them three weeks to correct it, but they only added an addendum rather than actually changing the original wording Made it difficult to explain when I sent my results to my employer overseas. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/32 "2018-02-16T08:21:38Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Half the cost of what? If the NHS paid for all UK pharmaceutical development, you would have a point, but it doesn’t. Glaxo _et al._ sell most of their drugs in the US, and most of their R&D budget comes from US sales. Erm…eh? You reckon that over half of global (population 7.6 billion) sales for pharma companies (i.e. the thing that creates the revenue for the R&D, wherever the actual research labs may be) is in the US (population 323 million). Now I know it’s the pit and all, but I’m going to have to ask for a cite that supports that, because it smells like bull to me. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/33 "2018-02-16T10:42:08Z")
They turned me into a newt ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Batano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@Batano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batano)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/34 "2018-02-16T11:08:04Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Erm…eh? > > You reckon that over half of global (population 7.6 billion) sales for pharma companies (i.e. the thing that creates the revenue for the R&D, wherever the actual research labs may be) is in the US (population 323 million). > > Now I know it’s the pit and all, but I’m going to have to ask for a cite that supports that, because it smells like bull to me. He is FOS. Half of Glaxo’s revenue is international: [GSK revenue by region 2023 | Statista](http://www.statista.com/statistics/266310/glaxosmithkline-revenue-worldwide-by-region/) ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/35 "2018-02-16T11:37:56Z")
> [@Batano](#): > > He is FOS. Half of Glaxo’s revenue is international: [GSK revenue by region 2023 | Statista](http://www.statista.com/statistics/266310/glaxosmithkline-revenue-worldwide-by-region/) Actually, it’s a lot more than half: "Geographically, the US markets contributed nearly 37.2% of GSK’s total revenues at ~2.7 billion pounds for 2Q17, representing 5% operational growth compared to 2Q16. The European markets contributed nearly 26.8% of the company’s total revenues at ~2.0 billion pounds for 2Q17, representing 2% operational growth compared to 2Q16. International markets contributed ~36.0% to GSK’s total revenues at ~2.6 billion pounds for 2Q17—1% operational growth compared to 2Q16. The increase in revenues across all geographical areas is due to strong performance of new pharmaceutical products including HIV products and vaccines products." > **[Market Realist](https://marketrealist.com/healthcare/)** > > The latest news in the healthcare sector including biotech and telehealth. So, 63% of GSK’s revenue comes from the rest of the world, but somehow the US is the one generating their their research budget. Because…reasons? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/36 "2018-02-16T12:30:31Z")
> [@Grim\_Render](#): > > I don’t know if it is. The UKs system is clearly better at fostering innovation, since per person it outperforms the US at half the cost. Dunno - it feels to me like, to be properly fair, there needs to be some sort of ‘per disease type’ weighting in those stats. Outcomes per patient are fair to compare per capita; new treatments, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/37 "2018-02-16T12:41:21Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > For further information, please reread. Was the first garage in Scarfolk? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/38 "2018-02-16T16:04:18Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > So, 63% of GSK’s revenue comes from the rest of the world, but somehow the US is the one generating their their research budget. Because…reasons? Because we’re comparing the US and the UK, not the US and the rest of the world. The point is that GSK makes far more money here than it does in the UK. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/39 "2018-02-16T16:29:54Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Because we’re comparing the US and the UK, not the US and the rest of the world. The point is that GSK makes far more money here than it does in the UK. Except here’s what you actually said: " Glaxo et al. sell most of their drugs in the US, and most of their R&D budget comes from US sales." And, as pointed out above, that’s just not true. 2/3 of their revenue is from sales around the globe. By the way, with regards to an earlier statement of yours: “If cost is no object, the US has the best healthcare system in the world, bar none.” You can get top tier treatment in pretty much any first world country if you’ve got the funds. However if you’re a billionaire and really want the very best, you cherry pick hospitals depending on your disease, for example Steve Jobs going to Basel for hormone radiation therapy. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861/40 "2018-02-16T16:49:47Z")
Rocío Dúrcal (artistic name) was a child prodigy singer/actress in Spain who eventually spent most of her adult career based in México, working on both sides of the Atlantic and becoming famous mostly for her rancheras (the woman could make the violins run out of air, when she put her throat to it). When she got cancer, she went to the best hospital in Houston. Her doctor told her “from what I hear you and your family say you still have a house in Madrid, right?” “Well, yeah, we live between both countries.” “So why don’t you go back there?” “But… isn’t this hospital better?” “The techniques I’d use in your case are completely cutting-edge. I learned them in [La Paz](http://www.madrid.org/cs/Satellite?language=es&pagename=HospitalLaPaz/Page/HPAZ_home).” So yeah, she came home. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-comment-on-us-healthcare-system/808861.md?page=3)