# UK Dopers, PLEASE tell me this is a joke! \[Replace F for 'fail' with N for 'nearly'\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 22, 2003, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-please-tell-me-this-is-a-joke-replace-f-for-fail-with-n-for-nearly/203083 "2003-09-22T14:05:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-please-tell-me-this-is-a-joke-replace-f-for-fail-with-n-for-nearly/203083/21 "2003-09-22T17:53:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > **It doesn’t really matter what you call it, because cruel little children will still use it as if it meant “fail” - at my school, “special achievement” was used as an insult.** And “special children” pretty much means what “retarded” used to be used for. Changing the word doesn’t change the attitude. Instead, the new word becomes the new insult. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-please-tell-me-this-is-a-joke-replace-f-for-fail-with-n-for-nearly/203083/22 "2003-09-22T18:28:30Z")
**Zenster** it sounds like, for the most part, that ODD is describing teenagers. ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-please-tell-me-this-is-a-joke-replace-f-for-fail-with-n-for-nearly/203083/23 "2003-09-22T21:35:34Z")
In my day, an ‘N’ grade meant ‘non-graded’ or ‘not turned up to the exam due to it’s clashing with a rather important World Cup game’ or something along those lines… If I had a cv, it could be seriously upgraded by this news. I’m still not sure who won at Edgehill in 1642… but I clearly remember the outcome of Scotland v Peru in 1978… ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-please-tell-me-this-is-a-joke-replace-f-for-fail-with-n-for-nearly/203083/24 "2003-09-22T21:44:52Z")
a) **N** umbskull b) **N** ot even close c) **N** yah nyah stupidhead! d) **N** ice try, dipshit e) **N** ext time, stay awake in class f) **N** ews flash – you flunked g) All of the above …as opposed to the University of Nebraska, where the **N** stands for **N** owledge! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-please-tell-me-this-is-a-joke-replace-f-for-fail-with-n-for-nearly/203083/25 "2003-09-22T22:46:47Z")
The Straight Dope, fighting **N** early informed, it wasn’t as near as we thought. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-please-tell-me-this-is-a-joke-replace-f-for-fail-with-n-for-nearly/203083/26 "2003-09-22T22:54:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by adam yax \* > \*\ ***Zenster** it sounds like, for the most part, that ODD is describing teenagers. \*\* Yes, I think most teenagers could be described as ODD… ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-please-tell-me-this-is-a-joke-replace-f-for-fail-with-n-for-nearly/203083/27 "2003-09-22T23:03:10Z")
From the link: ‘They include instructions that maths exam answers should be marked as either ‘creditworthy’ or ‘not creditworthy’, rather than correct or incorrect.’ I don’t know enough about quantum physics… 2+2=5 … If the cat don’t see it it could be ‘creditworthy’. The mind boggles… History: 1966… Geoff Hurst scores a hat trick against the Normans… one in the eye for Franz Beckenbauer… “Creditworthy” ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-please-tell-me-this-is-a-joke-replace-f-for-fail-with-n-for-nearly/203083/28 "2003-09-22T23:17:27Z")
slight hijack: How does the term “political correctness” fit into all this? I’m so counfused by its meaning these days. ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-please-tell-me-this-is-a-joke-replace-f-for-fail-with-n-for-nearly/203083/29 "2003-09-22T23:38:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pizzabrat \* > \*\*slight hijack: > How does the term “political correctness” fit into all this? I’m so confused by its meaning these days. \*\* IMHO: In a politically correct world we are all equal. The phrase ‘Although some sums are more equal than others’ should not be used. ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-please-tell-me-this-is-a-joke-replace-f-for-fail-with-n-for-nearly/203083/30 "2003-09-23T00:15:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by adam yax \* > **Zenster** it sounds like, for the most part, that ODD is describing teenagers. Feel free to drop by my [ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder) a Big WTF?!?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=212863) and have your say. There are some who disagree. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-please-tell-me-this-is-a-joke-replace-f-for-fail-with-n-for-nearly/203083/31 "2003-09-23T00:37:42Z")
I’d give a “Nearly” to those _nearly_ passed, a “Barely” to those who _barely_ passed, & a “Did Not Pass, No, Not Even Close” to those who _did not_ pass. Just giving “Nearly” to all those previously labeled “Failed” is a flat-out lie. I voted on the site’s poll, too, even though I’m a foreigner. Oh, well, I listen to the BBC World Service once in a while, I’m not completely unfamiliar with the country, right? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-please-tell-me-this-is-a-joke-replace-f-for-fail-with-n-for-nearly/203083/32 "2003-09-23T00:44:21Z")
> [@](#): > > The Straight Dope, fighting Nearly informed, it wasn’t as near as we thought. Now that had me laughing out loud. ---
**Author:** ![Rodrigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Rodrigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodrigo)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-please-tell-me-this-is-a-joke-replace-f-for-fail-with-n-for-nearly/203083/33 "2003-09-23T03:28:05Z")
I’m a teacher and have suffered the “only correct in green” days. Kids aren’t stupid, they know they failed and at worst we just make them think passing isn’t that important. Self-esteem by itself is nothing. I’m sure those guys who blow themselves up in pizza places had sky-high self-esteem as they pressed the button. We should try to be as postive as posssible. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mascaroni \* > \*\*I’m still not sure who won at Edgehill in 1642… but I clearly remember the outcome of Scotland v Peru in 1978… \*\* Peru 3 Scotland 1 (The Peruvian goalie even blocked a penalty kick) ARRIBA PERÚ ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-please-tell-me-this-is-a-joke-replace-f-for-fail-with-n-for-nearly/203083/34 "2003-09-23T03:37:13Z")
First off, my response is related to children who are 7 and older who can understand the concept of winning and losing. In my experience, kids who do poorly in school know it, and the patronizing BS is more harmfull than good because they know they’re being patronized. They also know they are NOT achieving anything (all the sadder if they don’t). Ask any kid who has really achieved something and they will inevitably point to a specific teacher and say “Mr/Ms So-and-So was really hard but I learned alot”. IMO, patronizing a child is FAR more destructive to his/her self esteem than feel-good grades. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-please-tell-me-this-is-a-joke-replace-f-for-fail-with-n-for-nearly/203083/35 "2003-09-23T05:18:02Z")
Wow… this Politically Correct Stuff is going the not sane way. I mean the crazy way 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-please-tell-me-this-is-a-joke-replace-f-for-fail-with-n-for-nearly/203083/36 "2003-09-23T05:33:36Z")
I have been an educator for many years, and this is not just a problem in the UK. American Schools are increasingly adopting this same attitude. The UK is at least lucky that their press covers developments in education, so that the ludicrousness comes to the surface. We haven’t done that here since “ebonics”. Real achievement is what bestows self-esteem on an individual. Trying to cover up their total lack of ability in the area of bringing about real achievement, some school systems decide to recast failure as some sort of achievement in and of itself, so as not to make the children of the greatest country on Earth feel inadequate. Insanity. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-please-tell-me-this-is-a-joke-replace-f-for-fail-with-n-for-nearly/203083/37 "2003-09-23T05:40:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rashak Mani \* > \*\*Wow… this Politically Correct Stuff is going the not sane way. I mean the crazy way 🙂 \*\* You’ve used several unwords there. What you meant to say is that the Politically Correct stuff is becoming doubleplus ungood and infected with Goldsteinisms. ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-please-tell-me-this-is-a-joke-replace-f-for-fail-with-n-for-nearly/203083/38 "2003-09-23T10:11:36Z")
I appreciate the logic behind the move - kids who don’t pass need encouragement to do better. But this works if it’s actual encouragement. So long as the grade isn’t 'MORON! You’ll never pass!!" I don’t think _calling a grade that a lobotomized basketball could get ‘nearly’ boosts anyone’s self-esteem_. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-please-tell-me-this-is-a-joke-replace-f-for-fail-with-n-for-nearly/203083/39 "2003-09-23T10:23:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by scotandrsn \* > I have been an educator for many years, and this is not just a problem in the UK. American Schools are increasingly adopting this same attitude. The UK is at least lucky that their press covers developments in education, so that the ludicrousness comes to the surface. We haven’t done that here since “ebonics”. > > Real achievement is what bestows self-esteem on an individual. Trying to cover up their total lack of ability in the area of bringing about real achievement, some school systems decide to recast failure as some sort of achievement in and of itself, so as not to make the children of the greatest country on Earth feel inadequate. > > Insanity. I’m not an expert but I would have been inclined to think the best measure of achievement for the very young is not some articial objective (examination) standard but whether they are making the most of their individual ability, as it is at that point in their still _very_ early development. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-please-tell-me-this-is-a-joke-replace-f-for-fail-with-n-for-nearly/203083/40 "2003-09-23T10:52:16Z")
I’m assuming that those who get an A get a ‘Nearly Perfect’ too? And those who got Bs get ‘Nearly, Nearly Perfect’. So those who used to get an F should get a ‘Nearly, Nearly, Nearly Nearly, Nearly, Nearly Perfect’. Having a ‘Perfect’ in there somewhere has got to be better than having just a ‘Pass’ mentioned somewhere. Or is that taking a stupid idea too far? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-please-tell-me-this-is-a-joke-replace-f-for-fail-with-n-for-nearly/203083.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-dopers-please-tell-me-this-is-a-joke-replace-f-for-fail-with-n-for-nearly/203083.md?page=3)