# UK football, season 2008/09, forecasts **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 7, 2008, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150 "2008-08-07T12:09:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/461 "2009-01-19T09:59:16Z")
> [@chowder](#): > > Anyway, City managed a 1-0 against the mighty pie eaters of Wigan despite Dunne getting sent off (again) > > Up to 11th place, we’re on the move babies 🙂 Let’s hope we can pick up a pair of good centre backs before the window closes. I don’t know what’s wrong with them but Dunne and Richards just aren’t cutting it. I’d go for Samba at Blackburn for one (just had to pay £25 million for him in Football Manager 2009 - it’s mirrored the ‘moneybags City’ effect very well!). Lescott too. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/462 "2009-01-19T10:39:32Z")
The change at United this season is most startlingly reflected by the fact we have scored less goals than City. As mentioned already, but for our resolute defence and some luck, we’d be in trouble by our usual high standards. I know we are not firing on all full cylinders yet, but that hasn’t seemed to be through lack of trying, so that is a bit of worry. Still, I could be a Tottenham fan! ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/463 "2009-01-19T11:31:14Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > The change at United this season is most startlingly reflected by the fact we have scored less goals than City. As mentioned already, but for our resolute defence and some luck, we’d be in trouble by our usual high standards. I know we are not firing on all full cylinders yet, but that hasn’t seemed to be through lack of trying, so that is a bit of worry. Still, I could be a Tottenham fan! Ferguson has always known you need a good defence before anything else. For some reason City, in all its incarnations, never seem to get this. Can’t remember the last time we had a sound centre back pairing. Watson and Booth maybe. Thirty years ago and counting. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/464 "2009-01-19T12:47:35Z")
So City have agreed to pay £14M for Craig Bellamy. This guy is a total wankstem. He may be a “decent” player but he sure as hell isn’t worth £14m. He’s played for 8 clubs already and seems to just decide to fuck off when he’s had enough of his current club. **Tagos** Doyle and Heslop and Oakes were a good trio…1968 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/465 "2009-01-19T12:53:50Z")
> [@chowder](#): > > So City have agreed to pay £14M for Craig Bellamy. > > This guy is a total wankstem. He may be a “decent” player but he sure as hell isn’t worth £14m. > > He’s played for 8 clubs already and seems to just decide to fuck off when he’s had enough of his current club. > > **Tagos** Doyle and Heslop and Oakes were a good trio…1968 🙂 City should have said “If you can get £14 million elsewhere, good luck to you. £4 mil; take it, or leave it. That’s way above what he is worth.” I second the wankstem descriptor. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/466 "2009-01-19T13:44:11Z")
> [@chowder](#): > > So City have agreed to pay £14M for Craig Bellamy. > > This guy is a total wankstem. He may be a “decent” player but he sure as hell isn’t worth £14m. > > He’s played for 8 clubs already and seems to just decide to fuck off when he’s had enough of his current club. > > **Tagos** Doyle and Heslop and Oakes were a good trio…1968 🙂 True. But pre-dating Watson and Booth. I don’t like Bellamy either but maybe at 29 and the fact that the financial grass won’t get any greener than it is at City, he’ll stay and do a good job. My gut feeling is we’re not getting Kaka. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/467 "2009-01-19T13:56:27Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > My gut feeling is we’re not getting Kaka. In all honesty I hope we don’t get him. Say what you will but no player on this planet is worth over £100M. And what happens if we do get him and he fails to deliver the goods or gets badly injured ? Then we are the laughing stock, not that we haven’t been for gawd knows how long **Ivan** Spurs offered the same but Wet Spam refused to deal with them ---
**Author:** ![Discordia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Discordia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Discordia)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/468 "2009-01-19T14:23:01Z")
Bellamy really is a baffling target. How on earth is he worth so much? (and it’s not like it’s just City’s money, Spurs offered the same). Hope Kaka does go to Citeh, the EPL desperately needs a flair team or 5. Robinho/Kaka/Ireland/whoeverelsetheybuy should be fun. Can’t say I understand Hughes’ choice of forwards, but I guess we’ll see. **chowder** , why wouldn’t he deliver the goods? He’s one of the best players in the world, period. Hope you don’t believe that tosh about the EPL being tougher than other leagues 😛 It seems he is going, as Berlusconi is stabbing him in the back. He says he wants to say, Berlusconi makes noises about it being “hard to keep him” and makes a bid for Ribery. Classy guy, that. At least Kaka can hold his head high after this, he wanted to stay but the club is pretty much booting him out. ---
**Author:** ![fortytwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f9ae1b/32.png) [@fortytwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fortytwo)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/469 "2009-01-19T15:00:59Z")
> [@chowder](#): > > So City have agreed to pay £14M for Craig Bellamy. > > This guy is a total wankstem. He may be a “decent” player but he sure as hell isn’t worth £14m. > > He’s played for 8 clubs already and seems to just decide to fuck off when he’s had enough of his current club. > > **Tagos** Doyle and Heslop and Oakes were a good trio…1968 🙂 Look on the bright side. I give him a week before he’s arguing with the rest of the team and until the end of the season before he wants to leave. Unfortunately there’s always another club waiting in the wings - or perhaps not this time. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/470 "2009-01-19T15:08:29Z")
> [@Discordia](#): > > **chowder** , why wouldn’t he deliver the goods? He’s one of the best players in the world, period. Hope you don’t believe that tosh about the EPL being tougher than other leagues 😛 Robinho has adjusted well enough to the British game. Supreme talent will out and Kaka is one of those. Bellamy scores goals and this season prices for good players doubled in the close season. You watch us pay £20 million for Cruz next. It is insane money but the EPL has been like that since Blackburn and Jack Walker started to ball rolling in a modest way and Chelsea took it to new places. And the Premiership needs someone to break into the comfy Top 4 and you have to pay to play. You just wait to the summer when Mourinho or Maldini get their hands on the City cheque book. Meantime the City millions are a massive cash injection for European football that will cascade down through the transfer market. And as an added bonus for all concerned: this is City. We couldn’t find the map to success if it were tattooed on our ass and the ghosts of Megallan and Sir Walter Raleigh held a hand each. ---
**Author:** ![garius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e19b73/32.png) [@garius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garius)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/471 "2009-01-19T15:18:52Z")
> [@Discordia](#): > > I don’t really understand all the hoopla around Villa finishing in the CL. Even if they manage it, competing in both the CL and keeping their top 4 spot will be incredibly difficult, considering that Arsenal/Chelsea/whoever loses out isn’t exactly going anywhere. Seconding this. To be honest, I’ll be disappointed if Villa pip us to fourth this season but I won’t panic. We’ve had a ridiculous run of bad luck this season. Off the pitch there wasn’t an Arsenal fan out there who, after our collapse this time last year, didn’t go into this season thinking that our squad was seriously lacking in numbers and experience and we’ve been utterly crucified by injuries this season. On the pitch we’ve also been ridiculously unlucky. Yes, that’s all part of the game but it still has an effect - we’ve hit the woodwork more than any other team in the Premiership this season, for example. Our major problem, of course, has been managerial. Wenger is a great manager, but he’s always had a massive dislike of buying players “off the peg” and he hasn’t had to manage his own transfers at Arsenal for years - Dein used to do it for him. Much as I disagree with Dein’s ideas about foreign money and admit that he could be a ruthless bastard, he always had the club’s best interests at heart and used his evil powers for the benefit of Arsenal. Frankly, if Dein was still here we’d have had Barry and Upson in the summer and cashed in on both Bendtner and Adebeyor. We certainly wouldn’t be worrying about our lack of fortitude now. Instead as it stands, I’ll be surprised if we bring anyone in during the January window now that the Hammers don’t need to part with Upson. The whole Arshavin stuff is a load of bollocks - find me a single creditable story that isn’t just his agent mouthing off and I’ll consider it. I mean, _fuck_ - It tells you everything you need to know about our transfer prospects when things are so bad Gooner morale goes up at the hint of us signing Jimmy fucking Bullard. Wenger needs a proverbial kick up the arse and if nothing else, a season without the Champions League may be just the thing to do it. Whatever happens though, we’ve got the support, the player potential and most importantly the finances to bounce back next season. Our future isn’t dependent on the whims of billionaires or the promise of Champions League revenues and that suits me fine. Villa have been excellent this season and deserved both their victory and draw against us. They have also, however, been rather fortunate - their squad depth is no better than ours and it would be interesting to see what a full season, complete with Champions League footie and some rather nasty injuries in key places, would do to them. Not that I wish them ill - I wish them all the best. Finally, I can’t second this enough: > [@](#): > > Plus they’re a team with _zero_ creativity, which will be a huge problem once teams start playing them like they do the other big teams - 10 behind the ball. Villa have caught a lot of teams out this year by being better than expected. That won’t happen next year and they’ll face the same soul-destroyingly dull games against anyone outside the top six that we do. I can’t describe how annoying it is watching the same 10 behind the ball tactics getting rolled out against us every week. Yes, its perfectly legitimate and yes, it can gets teams points but _Jesus WAG-fucking Christ_ is it dull. Next year, what I’ll miss about the Champions League isn’t the money or the (overhyped) glory, but the fact that at least there I get to watch some fucking football being played. Mind you, at this rate, watching Spurs getting kicked around by the likes of Swansea and Barnsley away is probably going to more than make up for it. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Discordia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Discordia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Discordia)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/472 "2009-01-19T15:49:57Z")
Yeah, the 10 behind the ball stuff is tedious crap. Personally I don’t buy that it’s actually an effective tactic anyway. It seems to work very rarely, and it’s one measly point. Surely your chances of drawing with 10 behind the ball aren’t better than a third of the chance of winning? The Spanish teams mostly seem to adopt the latter approach, and while they still obviously lose most of the time, at least it’s an entertaining spanking, often pretty topsy turvy. Even useless Osasuna took on Barcelona and Real Madrid and made a game of it. I hope we wouldn’t have Barry, can’t say I’m impressed by him. Alonso I’d take though! That’s more the fault of Rick Parry or whoever vetoed Benitez buying Barry though, can’t blame Wenger or anyone at Arsenal for that. You’re right about the Dein stuff, but that isn’t Wenger’s fault, it’s the people above him. No manager actually deals with getting transfers done, he just says who he wants. Hard to know whether the lack of signings is Wenger not wanting people, or the club screwing up getting the people he wants. Anyway, as you say, falling out the CL wouldn’t be the Apocalypse that people seem to treat it as. Spanish and Italian teams fall in and out of the CL all the time and nothing major happens to them. Arsenal have a very large support base in the richest city in the country. They’ll be just fine. Still think Villa will fade anyway. MON doesn’t (can’t, really, he doesn’t have one) rotate the squad at all, and they rely on pace. Surely Young and Agbonlahor are going to lose their edge. Any injuries would do them in too, they’ve been remarkably lucky. If Tottenham go down though, I’ll be happy with missing out on the EUFA cup 😉 ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/473 "2009-01-19T16:37:01Z")
[quote=“Discordia, post:468, topic:459150”] **chowder** , why wouldn’t he deliver the goods? He’s one of the best players in the world, period. Hope you don’t believe that tosh about the EPL being tougher than other leagues 😛 QUOTE] I didn’t say he wouldn’t I suggested _what if_. While I’m here, it appears that terms have been agreed for De-Jong, another £14M ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/474 "2009-01-19T16:45:22Z")
Given the two calls Villa got the benefit of the doubt from n Saturday I think it is safe to say that they are now considered (by the referees, at least) as an equal of the big 4. ---
**Author:** ![garius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e19b73/32.png) [@garius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garius)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/475 "2009-01-19T17:07:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Given the two calls Villa got the benefit of the doubt from n Saturday I think it is safe to say that they are now considered (by the referees, at least) as an equal of the big 4. Very true - if anyone got lucky at the weekend it was the boys playing away at Sunderland. > [@](#): > > You’re right about the Dein stuff, but that isn’t Wenger’s fault, it’s the people above him. No manager actually deals with getting transfers done, he just says who he wants. Hard to know whether the lack of signings is Wenger not wanting people, or the club screwing up getting the people he wants. I’ll be interested to see what happens now Ivan Gazidis is Chief Exec. He brings a decent record with him from MLS so hopefully he’ll sort things out finally. > [@](#): > > If Tottenham go down though, I’ll be happy with missing out on the EUFA cup Think we’ve got Stoke right at the end of the season - what are the chances they may end up taking 6 points off us this season, thereby “accidentally” relegating the boys from Edmonton? It’s not like we haven’t sent them down that way before… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/476 "2009-01-19T18:01:54Z")
> [@chowder](#): > > So City have agreed to pay £14M for Craig Bellamy. > > This guy is a total wankstem. He may be a “decent” player but he sure as hell isn’t worth £14m. > > He’s played for 8 clubs already and seems to just decide to fuck off when he’s had enough of his current club. Talking about clubs, is he bringing his golf bag with him? ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/477 "2009-01-19T18:57:42Z")
> [@garius](#): > > Seconding this. > > To be honest, I’ll be disappointed if Villa pip us to fourth this season but I won’t panic. OK - I am hardly a neutral here, but why the hoopla about Villa possibly getting the 4th CL spot? Because of the fucking insufferable arrogance of the “Big 4.” This isn’t an anti-Arsenal thing particularly, in fact, it is way more anti-Chelsea. Early in this thread, we have seen them described as the “traditional Big 4.” Tradition my arse. I remember seeing Chelsea as a second division team, playing in front of crappy crowds. We used to go there a lot because you could always get a ticket. I am sick and tired of them pretending to be this club with great tradition. They have bought their way into the the elite, and they will disappear back down as soon as their sugar daddy gets bored or arrested. And then you go on to give another sign of the presumption of the “elite.” With another manager, you would have ended up with Barry. It’s quite possible you might be right, but fans of other clubs get kind of tired of the presumption in the press that they are simply training grounds for players until they get good enough to be considered by the sainted elite clubs. That’s why CL football is so important for a club like Villa - it gives us a much better chance of holding on to great players (though Ashley Young to Real (fuckers) still worries me). Clubs like Crewe were always like this, but to see clubs with great support and great tradition (Villa, Newcastle, City etc) treated like feeder clubs by the press creates a lot of resentment. I’ve always, for family reasons, had a soft spot for Liverpool. But even with that, I think pretty much every fan outside of those of Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, and Man U are waiting for them to fall flat on their faces. It’s why hearing fans of those teams criticize City makes me laugh a little. Chelsea fucking bought their way to the top. Now they don’t have the deepest pockets they are critiquing others for “ruining the game”? Fuck them. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/478 "2009-01-19T19:39:53Z")
More or less what you said **villa**. As you know I have a soft spot for Aston Vulva and Liverpool , I also follow the fortunes of Rochdale having lived in that arsehole of a town for 14 years. So far as City is concerned, I would support them if they played in the Conference and I’m certain you’d feel the same about Villa ---
**Author:** ![Discordia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Discordia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Discordia)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/479 "2009-01-19T19:53:47Z")
Honestly, there’s little difference between what Abramovich did and what Lerner is doing. They are/were both clubs there and there abouts, and now a billionaire is trying to/did make them a permanent fixture at the top. I suppose Villa’s billionaire is a nicer guy, but that’s about the only real difference. It’s understandable, the only other way to break in is to luck out with a great season, probably combined with someone in the top 4 underachieving. Not too likely. And Ashley Young is not a great player by a long shot (and to be even handed, Walcott isn’t either). All that said, I’d love if Villa kicked out Liverpool or Chelski. At least there’s a chance they won’t play such soul-destroying football. Don’t know much about Birmingham though, can they really compete (long term, sustainably) with London clubs and Manchester United? All the traditional CL clubs are from big cities and/or have large worldwide support. A club like Portsmouth can’t be a sustainable top 4 club no matter how much money you throw at them, because the city just can’t support it. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/480 "2009-01-19T20:13:10Z")
Well, there is a little difference. Apart from the history and tradition of Villa, which isn’t present at Chelsea, however much their fans and the press lie, there is also a difference in degree. Lerner isn’t opening the check book to the same degree. Even if that wasn’t the case, I don’t care. Once one team is doing it, then open season. Arsenal, Liverpool, Man U - great traditions. The press isn’t lying when it talks about that. But Chelsea? Come on. They are “Big 4” for one reason only, and that is cash. And if we are critiquing boring play, lets remember Arsenal are not examply exempt from accusations of a tedious past. It’s tough given that I left the UK when they were Boring, Boring Arsenal to now believe they are as exciting to wacth as they seem when I see them. 😛 And Birmingham is the second biggest city - and lets face it, no one with half a brain or more would want to watch the Blue Scum. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150.md?page=25)