# UK football, season 2008/09, forecasts **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 7, 2008, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150 "2008-08-07T12:09:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![garius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e19b73/32.png) [@garius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garius)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/481 "2009-01-19T23:10:01Z")
> [@](#): > > That’s why CL football is so important for a club like Villa - it gives us a much better chance of holding on to great players (though Ashley Young to Real (fuckers) still worries me). Hate to break it to you but it doesn’t help - see the constant talent drain we suffer each season’s end just because we refuse to pay silly fucking money in wages. You (or we) could fucking _win_ the CL these days and it wouldn’t matter - the players would still fall into bed with Real or Barca at the first approach. > [@](#): > > And then you go on to give another sign of the presumption of the “elite.” With another manager, you would have ended up with Barry. It’s quite possible you might be right, but fans of other clubs get kind of tired of the presumption in the press that they are simply training grounds for players until they get good enough to be considered by the sainted elite clubs. Oh cry me a river. It’s nothing to do with being part of a “sainted elite.” Liverpool had unsettled him, Barry had half an eye on the door and his relationship with O’Neill was rather stretched. Wenger had already admitted to being an admirer as well and Barry had dropped hints he’d be open to London as a destination. There was no way he’d move to Chelsea or Man Utd and with Villa being a good side now, that basically left us as an option as anything else would have been a step down. The opportunity was there to be taken to at least make an approach and we didn’t. Simple as that. No ego trip necessary on my (or my club’s) behalf. I hate the whole “big four” thing. It’s Rupert Murdoch invented nonsense and it wasn’t that long ago that it was apparently a “big three.” Hell, if you boys hold it together until the end of the season then they’ll probably start calling it the “big five” and try and pretend it’s always been that way. I generally find, though, that the fans of clubs such as Villa have far too much of a chip on their shoulder about the bloody thing. I can count on one hand the number of Arsenal fans I know who feel we have some kind of God-given right to CL footie. Most just want to support the club and see us play well, no different from anyone else. Much as fans such as yourself like to paint us as the “bad guys,” we’re anything but. In Arsenal’s (and to a certain extent Man Utd’s, although I hate to admit it) case, it’s a long period of good management both on and off the pitch that’s put us where we are combined with the odd bit of luck. If clubs like Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City and yes, Villa (although to a much lesser extent) want to try and shortcut that process by paying cold, hard, cash then fair play. Their fans just need to realise that they have to leave their “real club” bragging rights at the door when they do it. Frankly I have no problem with you, **Villa** as either a poster or a club ( 😉 ). But for God’s sake stop whining about how unfair the game is, and concentrate on getting good and _staying good_ through sensible management and nice football. Because right now as an Arsenal fan it feels like we’re stuck between the Bullington Club on one side and the Champaigne Socialists on the other. It;s fucking _lonelly_ here in the middle and we could use some decent company. ---
**Author:** ![fortytwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f9ae1b/32.png) [@fortytwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fortytwo)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/482 "2009-01-19T23:10:34Z")
> [@garius](#): > > … > Mind you, at this rate, watching Spurs getting kicked around by the likes of Swansea and Barnsley away is probably going to more than make up for it. 😃 I like you \*\* garius\*\* have I ever mentioned that before? I’m not sure though whether you think Swansea will be meeting Spurs in the Premier or Championship. At the moment after beating the mighty Reading 2-0 on Saturday it might be the Premier League - but I’m not sure I’d want that just yet. I do think we have one of the best young managers in the leagues right now and it wouldn’t surprise me if he gets poached from us. Now that Kaka isn’t on his way to Man. City proves to me there is a god after all. Why would Kaka be punished by allowing him to come into contact with Bellamy? ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/483 "2009-01-19T23:21:38Z")
Hello from the deep, dark pit that is being an Oldham fan after losing 5-0 at Hereford. You’re all looking like you’re in remarkably good shape from down here. ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/484 "2009-01-19T23:22:58Z")
And if anyone wants to splash millions on players, we have plenty, what with a forward line with an average age of 35.5 years old and a midfield that has everything you could want (except pace, skill, strength, vision and creativity). ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/485 "2009-01-19T23:27:59Z")
> [@Crusoe](#): > > And if anyone wants to splash millions on players, we have plenty, what with a forward line with an average age of 35.5 years old… Well to be fair, you are called Oldham. ---
**Author:** ![Discordia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Discordia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Discordia)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/486 "2009-01-20T00:25:47Z")
**garius** , players going to Real and Barca doesn’t have much to do with the wages. They’re very rich, sure, but it’s more to do with a more appealing league and a country where the sun shines 😉 ---
**Author:** ![garius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e19b73/32.png) [@garius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garius)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/487 "2009-01-20T10:12:02Z")
> [@Discordia](#): > > **garius** , players going to Real and Barca doesn’t have much to do with the wages. They’re very rich, sure, but it’s more to do with a more appealing league and a country where the sun shines 😉 Absolutely - its a glamour thing as much as anything else and I can totally understand it. My point was more that for an English club to prevent that, they need to offer them an alternative reason for staying and that, like it or not, is generally higher wages. Mind you, I can’t see the glamour myself. I bet the pubs over there are nowhere near as good as the ones on Holloway Rd. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/488 "2009-01-20T12:13:46Z")
And so the Kaka Saga ends in typical ‘We Can’t But Help Fucking Up, We Are City’ fashion. Don’t get Kaka and prompt a walk-out by Robinho (who will be a Chelsea player before the end of the month. You read it here first). And at the same time we’ve added £50 million to the price of any other great player we go for and have squandered transfer energy better spent going after players we need and are willing to join a badly performing team with no chance of a Champion League spot. Come rain, come shine. Come good times, come bad times - we really are a fucking joke of a club. ---
**Author:** ![garius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e19b73/32.png) [@garius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garius)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/489 "2009-01-20T12:34:28Z")
Just got this in my email. You can tell it was written by a Man Utd fan but I thought it was pretty good nonetheless. > [@](#): > > Below is the apparent transcript that has been leaked of the telephone negotiations between Kaka and Manchester City. Unfortunately the transcript is only from the City end of the call… > > "Hello, is that Kaka? How do you fancy becoming the supply line to Craig Bellamy and Darius Vassell this winter? > > “No, your fellow countryman doesn’t like the cold and will be out until mid April - but you will play alongside Stephen Ireland” > > “No, Ireland is a person not a country” > > “yes, I fully appreciate that he is not Ronaldinho, Pirlo or even Beckham but many fans have him in their fantasy football team” > > “I know you are currently the richest man in Italy but we can double it!” > > “erm, well, we have had a bit of a slide recently and we are currently 15th” > > “erm, out of 20… but Mark Hughes once won the double for our neighbours” > > “Hughes” > > “Ex Blackburn boss” > > “Blackburn, Blackburn Rovers” > > “No, Blackburn…Black…Burn” > > “HUGHES man, HUGHES!!!” > > “He once scored a good goal against Spain” > > “No, that’s Gerry Armstrong… anyway, are you coming or not?” > > “Usually about two thirds full but if we play a big team its really rocks” > > “yes I know, but we don’t even have a car park cos all the fans walk to the ground they are so local” > > “Relevance? well, I suppose its all they have to brag about, whether its true or not” > > “Only the one to be fair but its called ‘blue moon’ you will love it” > > “Blue” > > “yes, definitely blue, always has been” > > “No, no, no, they are in Trafford” > > “yes they are, steeped in it in fact but what good is history to you my ambitious friend?” > > “erm, 1976 I think” > > “it was the er, the er League cup if memory serves me right” > > “Well, the plan was to get in the top 4 this season and then…” > > “yes, I realise that but…” > > “Aston Villa? What’s it got to do with them?” > > “Yes, I know but we have been down this history route already” > > “How the heck does a Brazilian playing in Italy know about Nottingham Forest?” > > “Yes, yes, and Leeds United also made a final but you are missing my point, this is all about the future” > > “Give me strength…HUGHES!!!” > > “yes I know he did and he was a legend there but he is a changed man” > > “forget them, they are falling apart” > > “But all those trophies were won last year! They have won nothing in 2009” > > “I have told you… 1976!!!” > > “How the heck does a Brazilian playing in Italy know that Virginia Wade has won Wimbledon since then?” > > “Yes she probably is in her 60’s” > > “I don’t know, probably about 17 league titles, 2 European cups and countless domestic cups what has that got to do with it?” > > “76,000 why?” > > “yes, every game, even minor cups I suppose, but where is this getting us?” > > “Yes, the league cup is considered a minor cup over here why?” > > “I know, I know, I know, ok perhaps they won the FA Cup in 1970 or something does it really matter?” > > “look, Kaka, we will treble whatever you are on now, buy you a mansion in Alderley Edge and give you a helicopter for your front lawn…are you joining us?” > > “NO!, its owned by the council - what has the ground got to do with anything” > > “well, officially its the City of Manchester Stadium but most people call it Eastlands” > > “EAST!, not Waste” > > “You will be adored there” > > “No, not there, here I meant” > > “No, that’s Old Trafford, I meant adored here at Waste…erm, Eastlands” > > “Anderson??? what does he know?” > > “Ok I hear what you say, but other than Pride, Ambition, Achievement, History, Passion and a large car park - what can they offer you?” > > “what do you mean no credit left in your phone…I phoned you” > > "Hello, Mr Kaka,… Mr Kaka are you > > there?.. ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/490 "2009-01-20T12:44:57Z")
Great performance by the Blues last night - Took some testicular fortitude to hang in there and equalise in the 87th minute. We’ve not played well against Liverpool for a while, been getting overrun by Big Stevie in the middle of the park. That didn’t happen yesterday, Mascherano being on the bench helped. Torres was off the boil too - missed a chance that he’d have buried last year. God help the Redmen if these two ever leave, Stevie’s been carrying the team for the best part of 10 years now. Keane really is out of the game at the moment - he didn’t get a kick and was hauled off in the second half. He’s a good player, but if that performance was anything like he’s been playing all season he needs to move for the sake of his career. Untenable for a £20 million guy to be stinking the place out like that. We now need to turn back the clock to 1991 when we last ended a Liverpool era. FA cup went to a second replay: 0-0, 4-4, then 1-0, a shell-shocked Kenny is out, Agent Souness in 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/491 "2009-01-20T12:59:16Z")
> [@Discordia](#): > > **chowder** , why wouldn’t he deliver the goods? He’s one of the best players in the world, period. Hope you don’t believe that tosh about the EPL being tougher than other leagues 😛 Not to speak for **chowder** (he speaks enough for himself :)), but I assume he was referring to the fact that whether the EPL is “more difficult” than other leagues or not, a number of high-profile players have come there and struggled, despite being outstandingly successful both before and after in other countries: Jon Dahl Tomasson, Sergei Rebrov, Andrei Shevchenko, Juan Sebastian Veron, to name just a few. There is no guarantee that Kaka will not turn out the same, though my personal opinion is that his class will out, as someone else said - he is probably a cut above anyone on my list. But you never know. > [@garius](#): > > On the pitch we’ve also been ridiculously unlucky. Yes, that’s all part of the game but it still has an effect - we’ve hit the woodwork more than any other team in the Premiership this season, for example. I agree with most of what you have said (particularly about teams being better off not playing 10 behind the ball), but I don’t see hitting the woodwork as being particularly unlucky. If you hit the woodwork, you’ve missed the target - all you’ve shown is that Arsenal are the most accurate missers :). If you could show that goalkeepers playing against Arsenal have a higher saves to shots ratio than they normally do against other clubs, then maybe that’s unlucky. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/492 "2009-01-20T13:16:51Z")
Well I, for one, am glad that Kaka didn’t sign. I am now going to sob quietly wondering what the hell is happening with Robinho. Typical City. Innit? ---
**Author:** ![Discordia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Discordia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Discordia)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/493 "2009-01-20T13:22:50Z")
Well, he isn’t going to England now (pity), but the EPL just isn’t more difficult. It’s a different league, lots of players struggle going to a new league, regardless of where it is. It’s a different style of play, and obviously you have to adapt to a new country. Sometimes things don’t work out, the EPL is hardly unique. Hitting the woodwork is indeed technically a miss, but another season those hits all go in, and the difference is 6-9 points and whoa, you’re in the lead or close enough. I still think there’s actually a chance that Arsenal, or even Villa could nick this title. It only takes a few losses/draws from United/pool, and surely United’s defence will have a few bad games sometime, and their attack is showing no signs of getting its act together, so who knows? Liverpool of course are the draw specialists, so I’m sure they’ll come up with a few more. A glorious win at OT (hopefully with Chelski and pool drawing there :p) would make it interesting too! Not that this is at all likely, but it’s certainly possible. It shouldn’t be, Arsenal should be dead and buried by now. And yep, Citeh falling apart already, haw haw. Hughes is a joker. Santa Cruz and Bellamy for 35m or something? Is he on drugs? Those two will get Citeh to mid-table at best. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/494 "2009-01-20T13:33:40Z")
> [@garius](#): > > Just got this in my email. You can tell it was written by a Man Utd fan but I thought it was pretty good nonetheless. I doubt the saga was conducted in anything like a professional manner as that. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/495 "2009-01-20T13:50:13Z")
Now, now, in all fairness, it isn’t MCFC’s fault that Kaka isn’t coming to the club. That was Kaka’s decision (or, less charitably, his father’s). Probably, he didn’t see any point to leaving where he was, regardless of the money being offered. Kudos to him for having his head on straight about that. What you CAN fault the club for is the offer in the first place. Why? Because now, having made the offer, they will face having to up wages at the club even though they didn’t land Kaka. Having made clear what they think a player of the caliber of Kaka is worth in wages, the other players will be quite insistent upon receiving an increase. It won’t matter that Kaka isn’t there. So, no Kaka, more expensive wage bill for whom they do have, or a club filled with dissension and strife. Should be fun to watch this play out. Unless, of course, you are a City supporter. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Discordia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Discordia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Discordia)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/496 "2009-01-20T13:52:31Z")
I really don’t like how Kaka is being beatified for having turned down Citeh’s offer. The saintly thing for him to do would be to take the money and build a hospital or something with it. He stayed for selfish reasons - because he likes Milan. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but it’s not really something to be especially commended IMO. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/497 "2009-01-20T13:55:30Z")
> [@Discordia](#): > > And yep, Citeh falling apart already, haw haw. Hughes is a joker. Santa Cruz and Bellamy for 35m or something? Is he on drugs? Those two will get Citeh to mid-table at best. Ah yes another insightful comment from a rag. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/498 "2009-01-20T14:04:26Z")
> [@Discordia](#): > > I really don’t like how Kaka is being beatified for having turned down Citeh’s offer. The saintly thing for him to do would be to take the money and build a hospital or something with it. He stayed for selfish reasons - because he likes Milan. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but it’s not really something to be especially commended IMO. Yes, he should have gone to City and accepted a wage similar to the highest paid player on the team, then donated the rest to worthwhile charities. What an example that would have set to the rest of the greedy bastards in our game. Apparently, God told him to stay at Milan, but I’m sure if there is one it’d prefer he’d took our one of our options. ---
**Author:** ![Discordia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Discordia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Discordia)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/499 "2009-01-20T14:15:06Z")
> [@chowder](#): > > Ah yes another insightful comment from a rag. > > :rolleyes: Er, you think I’m a United supporter? Insults aren’t allowed in this forum sir! I’m an armchair Arsenal & Barcelona fan, who will ditch them for anyone who plays attractive football if they stop doing so. I actually want Citeh to succeed, at the expense of Liverpool or Chelski. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/500 "2009-01-20T14:29:32Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > What you CAN fault the club for is the offer in the first place. Why? Because now, having made the offer, they will face having to up wages at the club even though they didn’t land Kaka. Having made clear what they think a player of the caliber of Kaka is worth in wages, the other players will be quite insistent upon receiving an increase. It won’t matter that Kaka isn’t there. So, no Kaka, more expensive wage bill for whom they do have, or a club filled with dissension and strife. Should be fun to watch this play out. > > Unless, of course, you are a City supporter. ☹ Precisely. It was obvious from the very beginning he did not want to come. It was like watching a rich nerdy kid chasing after Angelina Jolie while she’s hanging on the arm of Brad Pitt. An embarrassing, pointless waste of time that damages you in the eyes of other more viable mates. Honestly. I wish I could hold the damn club down and punch some sense into its clueless face. JFC, give me £150 million and I’d give you a complete new team of Premiership and good foreign stars before the month was out. Money talks but it only talks to those who need it and Milan is run by the biggest, richest crook in Europe and a politician to boot. A politician needs image and votes not money. I’m playing the shit out of Football Manager tonight. 🆒 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150.md?page=26)