# UK football, season 2008/09, forecasts **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 7, 2008, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150 "2008-08-07T12:09:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 54
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/1061 "2009-05-06T13:57:42Z")
> [@chowder](#): > > I got nothing to say ☹ You’ll have even less to say when we retain our trophy. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![mkecane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mkecane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mkecane)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/1062 "2009-05-06T16:52:24Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > You’ll have even less to say when we retain our trophy. 😛 Troph_ies_. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/1063 "2009-05-06T19:18:58Z")
This is not looking good for opponents of evil. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/1064 "2009-05-06T19:29:17Z")
Barca already down 1 - 0!!! Where oh WHERE is **Discordia**??? ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/1065 "2009-05-06T20:15:43Z")
That is a _scandalous_ red card. Absolutely shocking. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/1066 "2009-05-06T20:39:25Z")
GOAL BARCA!!! They are gonna squeak through!!! ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/1067 "2009-05-06T20:51:30Z")
I’d have preferred to do Chelsea again, but Man U v Barcelona will be the final for neutrals. As a Red, I’m expecting a very nerve-wracking evening of football, followed by absolute exhilaration or deflation. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/1068 "2009-05-07T04:04:12Z")
I can’t help feeling that if Drogba had spent a little less time punching the grass and whinging, he might have actually gotten one of those calls eventually. I know it doesn’t matter now, but are they really going to let players bump the officials after perceived blown calls? Terry nearly knocked the Norwegian over. Unfortunately, I don’t see Barca putting up much of a fight against Their Satanic Manchester Majesties. (Prove me wrong, children! Prove me wrong!) ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/1069 "2009-05-07T10:30:39Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Barca already down 1 - 0!!! Where oh WHERE is **Discordia**??? Doing his schtick on Urban75 ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/1070 "2009-05-07T11:26:43Z")
By “final for the neutrals” you really mean “final for the people who desparately want Barca to win and ronaldo to cry, sulk off, and join Real Madrid”? ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/1071 "2009-05-07T11:31:34Z")
That’s right; neutrals. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![fortytwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f9ae1b/32.png) [@fortytwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fortytwo)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/1072 "2009-05-07T12:05:08Z")
> [@Struan](#): > > Doing his schtick on Urban75 He hasn’t changed his style there either. ---
**Author:** ![Piker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@Piker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Piker)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/1073 "2009-05-07T19:20:31Z")
> [@Dead\_Badger](#): > > That is a _scandalous_ red card. Absolutely shocking. Ironically, for all the crying and conspiracy-theorying that the English papers are up to today, it was the red card against Barcelona which was the only howler from the referee yesterday. Just got ganged up on on a Chelsea message board for explaining why its not a penalty when the ball plays the arm. It’s shocking how little people are getting that in the country that invented the damned sport to being with. -Piker ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/1074 "2009-05-07T21:14:27Z")
It depends what you mean by “the ball plays the arm”. You don’t have to move your hand towards the ball while it is in flight for it to be handball. If you hold your hands in an an unnatural position for the purpose of blocking the ball, and it hits your hand, that is handball. In the in Pique incident, it’s debatable whether he was doing that, or his arm was jest held out to maintain balance. They just showed the replay again here, and it looked bad, he did have his right hand quite high, fingers splayed out. From the reverse angle, it looked like handball to me, but slow-mo does tend to make these things look worse, like they are more deliberate. But I’m not a Chelsea fan, and I think they tend to give too many handballs, so I’m not that bothered. ---
**Author:** ![Piker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@Piker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Piker)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/1075 "2009-05-07T21:24:14Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > It depends what you mean by “the ball plays the arm”. You don’t have to move your hand towards the ball while it is in flight for it to be handball. If you hold your hands in an an unnatural position for the purpose of blocking the ball, and it hits your hand, that is handball. Agreed. So there is an exception to the exception to the handball rule, no question. I don’t think there is any question about the Pique incident though. Pique must be pretty prescient if he decided to throw his hand in a direction perpendicular to the goal in order to handle the ball and take away a goal scoring opportunity. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2009, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/1076 "2009-05-08T00:19:39Z")
> [@Piker](#): > > Ironically, for all the crying and conspiracy-theorying that the English papers are up to today, it was the red card against Barcelona which was the only howler from the referee yesterday. Couldn’t disagree more. There were numerous howlers all over the pitch; the referee had an absolute shocker. The Abidal red was the worst, but frankly it was an embarrassing performance. I certainly don’t think it was a conspiracy, but I do think that the refereeing over the two legs did not befit a semi-final of the most prestigious club tournament in the world. Claims that this is because referees from “backwaters” like Norway are automatically shit are complete crap, though. At least he didn’t give someone three yellow cards like certain Premier League refs I could mention. It’s just the luck of the draw. Or an off night; referees have 'em like everyone else. For the record: [ul][li]For me the Drogba “penalty” is 50/50. Abidal’s nipping round his ankles and certainly had a grip of his shirt, and is really pushing his luck; at no point was he near to taking the ball. While I don’t think Drogba went down under any specific contact, Abidal was _very_ lucky. You don’t have to actually trip a player to foul them.[/li][li]The Malouda edge o’ the box one is dubious; I’m not convinced it was a foul, but as it was given, it was clearly a mistake to give a free kick and not a penalty - the action was _obviously_ inside the box.[/li][li]The Pique handball: again, you would expect to see this given at least two times in three. He’s jumped with his hands raised well above a natural position, away from his body, and has intercepted a ball that’s arguably on target, or at least dangerous. I think if you jump in an unnaturally splayed posture, you’re inviting the call. There’s only so much naivety one can claim, and he really did make his body big in classic goalkeeping style.[/li][li]The Eto’o handball claim is preposterous; you’d have to be some sort of idiot to claim that was in any way intentional. But of course Chelsea have no shortage of idiots.[/ul][/li]“Balancing” these there’s the not-given penalty in the first leg, an absolute cast-iron trip on Messi right outside the Chelsea area late on, the utterly ludicrous Abidal sending-off, and a whole bunch I’ve forgotten. But that’s not balance, that’s crap. Regardless of how happy one may be to see Chelsea on their bike (and God, I really am), the refereeing over two legs was unmitigated shod. Nice to see England’s Brave John Terry taking a stand for Respect, though: > [@EBJT](#): > > I am fully behind Didier for the way he reacted. The man wants to win. You can see the passion that he played with during the game and the passion afterwards. People are saying we shouldn’t have reacted the way we did but the fact is, six decisions went against us in front of 40,000 people. And for the ref to not give one of them is unusual. So there you go. Chasing the ref at the final whistle; fine. Effing into the cameras; fine. Nice work, EBJT. ---
**Author:** ![Piker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@Piker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Piker)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2009, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/1077 "2009-05-08T00:51:46Z")
[quote=“Dead\_Badger, post:1076, topic:459150”] [ul][li]For me the Drogba “penalty” is 50/50. Abidal’s nipping round his ankles and certainly had a grip of his shirt, and is really pushing his luck; at no point was he near to taking the ball. While I don’t think Drogba went down under any specific contact, Abidal was _very_ lucky. You don’t have to actually trip a player to foul them.[/li][li]The Malouda edge o’ the box one is dubious; I’m not convinced it was a foul, but as it was given, it was clearly a mistake to give a free kick and not a penalty - the action was _obviously_ inside the box.[/li][li]The Pique handball: again, you would expect to see this given at least two times in three. He’s jumped with his hands raised well above a natural position, away from his body, and has intercepted a ball that’s arguably on target, or at least dangerous. I think if you jump in an unnaturally splayed posture, you’re inviting the call. There’s only so much naivety one can claim, and he really did make his body big in classic goalkeeping style.[/li][li]The Eto’o handball claim is preposterous; you’d have to be some sort of idiot to claim that was in any way intentional. But of course Chelsea have no shortage of idiots.[/ul][/li][/QUOTE] I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree. I’m with you on the Eto’o call, and the Malouda edge of the box call. I don’t think Abidal’s contact on Drogba warranted a penalty. Nipping around the angles and grabbing onto a shirt (which always looks worse in slow-motion instant replay) shouldn’t be cause for a penalty unless it is enough to impede the offensive player, which it didn’t. If Drogba didn’t go down in a heap so quickly, I don’t think anyone would even remember that incident. And again, I just have to disagree with what seems to be the majority sentiment on the Pique handball. I understand that a player cannot make himself unnaturally large in order to “accidentially” block the ball, as someone who spent the summer of 2002 watching and re-watching Torstein Fring’s handball on the line against the USA, that rule is enshrined in my brain. But here, Pique’s arms are stretched off to the side in a direction that’s parallel to Anelka’s path towards goal. Not only that, but his arm is already in that position before Anelka takes his position, but after Pique makes his turn towards covering Anelka, which leads me to believe that it was a innocent and reasonable accident. I’d hate for the Champions League semifinal to be decided on an accident. -Piker ---
**Author:** ![fortytwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f9ae1b/32.png) [@fortytwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fortytwo)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2009, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/1078 "2009-05-08T11:48:35Z")
We are all going to have to accept that handball decisions are in the lap of the gods - or referees. There is no way everyone is going to agree on any one particular incident, but the way some teams surround the ref. over decisions is getting to be annoying. I know there is often a lot at stake, financial as well as pride but how often do the refs reverse a decision? It does happen on rare occasions so I would say only let the captain speak to him for an explanation if it’s not clear why the ref has blown up. I think there’s a lesson to be learnt from rugby, there’s no arguing the toss with the referee there. And while I’m mentioning referees, what is it with Alan Green? Is it ever going to be possible for him to commentate on a game without whinging about the referee. After all that I have to say that the ties between Werder Bremen and Hamburg in the UEFA cup were two cracking games, some pretty dodgy defending but really end to end exciting football. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2009, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/1079 "2009-05-08T12:47:43Z")
Agreed, Hamburg - Werder last night was a thriller. Nice tackle by that rolled-up ball of paper, leading to what if memory serves turned out to be the winning goal :eek: Great atmosphere in both games too. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150/1080 "2009-05-08T16:23:35Z")
The anti-referee attacks by players would be ended if the referees did what they should do for such actions: show a yellow card cautioning the player if the player shows dissent with the decision; show a red card and send off the player if in the process of complaining, the player uses foul or abusive language, or touches the referee intentionally. Yes, emotions are high, but that’s not an excuse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150.md?page=53) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-football-season-2008-09-forecasts/459150.md?page=55)