# UK General Election May 2015 (Population Share Version) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 2, 2015, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612 "2015-04-02T10:29:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2015, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/241 "2015-04-27T15:54:20Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Oh god, no. Between the vile Robinsons and that debacle in Newtownabbey with the Reduced Shakespeare Company and everything else, they come across as a bunch of irrational theocratic arseholes. Am I wrong about this? Creationists too. No you are not in the least bit wrong. They are an embarrassment to Ireland and the UK. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2015, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/242 "2015-04-27T16:10:24Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Miliband could be the hero of the hour agianst his better instincts. The English conundrum (no longer the West Lothian Question as it now involves relationships with NI and Wales) could be solved by an SNP Labour DUP Plaid Green agreement to dissolve the House of Lords and mandate an English Parliament along the lines of the Scottish Parliament; devolve more powers to NI and Wales to equalise the devolutions and then allow each national Parliament, according to its population, to send proportional candidates to a 100 member House of Nations to replace the Lords. > > This would leave the Commons to form a Government for all non devolved issues. This could be elected on a more proportional basis. Oh joy ! That would give us 5 different law-making parliaments and 5 general elections going on. And all the County Councils, and all the local Councils. And the European Elections. Plus a pseudo-Senate of the Wise and the Good. Apart from the destructive break-up and ensuing hatred, plus the strange little parochial rivalries that will begin to fester, as an absolute royalist I can get behind this: it will carry on faster the inevitable ending of representative democracy, which contrary to presentists’ fond wishes, is as fleeting and temporary as all other things and institutions. So, bring it on ! ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/243 "2015-04-28T08:52:47Z")
That’s hardly an unprecedented situation throughout Europe. I don’t understand the idea that the UK is some special case where federation will not work. Why hasn’t Germany fallen into a morass of in-fighting? It too has regional parliaments sitting under a federal parliament as well as local authorities and town councils. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/244 "2015-04-28T12:17:08Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > Oh joy ! That would give us 5 different law-making parliaments and 5 general elections going on. And all the County Councils, and all the local Councils. And the European Elections. Plus a pseudo-Senate of the Wise and the Good. > Apart from the destructive break-up and ensuing hatred, plus the strange little parochial rivalries that will begin to fester, as an absolute royalist I can get behind this: it will carry on faster the inevitable ending of representative democracy, which contrary to presentists’ fond wishes, is as fleeting and temporary as all other things and institutions. So, bring it on ! The problem of the elephant in the bed has to be solved. Either you have some sort of equality for all four nations or some bizarre mash-up in Westminster where either (as now) Scottish MPs can interfere in English domestic matters or (as with EVEL) there are second class MPs and the hobbling of UK governments that do not have a. English majority. Scotland is right at the exit door waiting for reasons to stay. If the union is to be maintained, some rational system must be reached. As noted above, Germa y does well with this system as do the USA, Canada, Australia, Spain, among others. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/245 "2015-04-28T13:12:47Z")
Um, I thought I heard something about the secession vote already having been held recently. Apparently I was mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/246 "2015-04-28T14:02:08Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > That’s hardly an unprecedented situation throughout Europe. I don’t understand the idea that the UK is some special case where federation will not work. Why hasn’t Germany fallen into a morass of in-fighting? It too has regional parliaments sitting under a federal parliament as well as local authorities and town councils. If there were federation, it would have to be at a lower level than the four nations, which is all that’s being discussed now. England is just too big to be one entity in a federalised system. Also, arguably, too diverse. Once you buy the logic that says different parts of the country have different priorities and interests, it’s hard to argue that, say, the South-West, the North-East and London should all be marching in lockstep. I for one would welcome much greater local and regional devolution of powers - but I don’t see any way those who get control of the Whitehall reins would want to relinquish them. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/247 "2015-04-28T14:32:02Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Scotland is right at the exit door waiting for reasons to stay. No it isn’t. Last year we decided to stay by a considerable margin, remember? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/248 "2015-04-28T14:41:15Z")
That _does_ ring a bell… ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/249 "2015-04-28T15:25:59Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > If there were federation, it would have to be at a lower level than the four nations, which is all that’s being discussed now. England is just too big to be one entity in a federalised system. Also, arguably, too diverse. Once you buy the logic that says different parts of the country have different priorities and interests, it’s hard to argue that, say, the South-West, the North-East and London should all be marching in lockstep. > > I for one would welcome much greater local and regional devolution of powers - but I don’t see any way those who get control of the Whitehall reins would want to relinquish them. The idea of regional English assemblies has been mooted multiple times with little interest. The problem is that while people like the idea of more autonomy, they don’t want yet another layer of government. What you’re more likely to get is local mayor’s offices with more power for the main urban areas, along the lines of the London model. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/250 "2015-04-28T15:28:44Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Scotland is right at the exit door waiting for reasons to stay. And I’m sure Scotland will be out that door any day now - right after Quebec…and Catalonia…and Texas… ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/251 "2015-04-28T15:40:32Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > The idea of regional English assemblies has been mooted multiple times with little interest. And we already have them: they’re called County Councils and District Councils. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/252 "2015-04-28T17:20:02Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > If there were federation, it would have to be at a lower level than the four nations, which is all that’s being discussed now. England is just too big to be one entity in a federalised system. Also, arguably, too diverse. Once you buy the logic that says different parts of the country have different priorities and interests, it’s hard to argue that, say, the South-West, the North-East and London should all be marching in lockstep. > > I for one would welcome much greater local and regional devolution of powers - but I don’t see any way those who get control of the Whitehall reins would want to relinquish them. Why is England too big to be one entity? Sure, it’s 17 million more people than California in a somewhat smaller area but California manages to make it just fine as a large entity in a federal system. Sure, you’ve got London and London’s interests being a disproportionate pull, but is that any more than New York City vs the rest of New York State? Chicago vs the rest of Illinois? And so on and so forth. I’m not saying you’re wrong, but just that it doesn’t sound like an insurmountable problem from where I’m sitting here in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/253 "2015-04-28T21:08:42Z")
Its not absolute numbers, its percentages. 85% of the population in one “state” with none of the other three having more than 10% is just ludicrously lop-sided. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/254 "2015-04-28T21:20:58Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > I’m not saying you’re wrong, but just that it doesn’t sound like an insurmountable problem from where I’m sitting here in the US. It’s not the individual legislative unit being a certain size that’s the problem. If the US consisted of only, say, California, Vermont, Rhode Island and Kentucky (co-located, obviously, it’s just an example) then there would be clear stresses in that federal union. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/255 "2015-04-28T22:09:19Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > No it isn’t. Last year we decided to stay by a considerable margin, remember? You are entitled to your prediction of outcome.; so am I? My analysis is that the Scottish people will slide half accidentally into secession because of the way they see Scotland and the Scottish being treated. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/256 "2015-04-28T22:16:08Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Why is England too big to be one entity? Sure, it’s 17 million more people than California in a somewhat smaller area but California manages to make it just fine as a large entity in a federal system. Sure, you’ve got London and London’s interests being a disproportionate pull, but is that any more than New York City vs the rest of New York State? Chicago vs the rest of Illinois? And so on and so forth. > > I’m not saying you’re wrong, but just that it doesn’t sound like an insurmountable problem from where I’m sitting here in the US. If it were to be a single parliament for England, there would have to be solid checks and balances to stop England totally dominating the Federal government. England would have a perpetual anti-state conservative model government whereas Scotland and Wales tend to the left and NI tends towards a sort of state-dependent conservative model. Unless England were further divided so that the North leftist regions were free to ally as necessary with its Celtic cousins, England would still have the whip hand. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/257 "2015-04-28T22:44:48Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > You are entitled to your prediction of outcome.; so am I? The past does not require prediction. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/258 "2015-04-28T22:46:17Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > It’s not the individual legislative unit being a certain size that’s the problem. If the US consisted of only, say, California, Vermont, Rhode Island and Kentucky (co-located, obviously, it’s just an example) then there would be clear stresses in that federal union. Ah, I see the misunderstanding. Everyone else was thinking of the effect on the federal structure. I was thinking of the size of the entity running its own affairs on the lower level. Sorry about that. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/259 "2015-04-28T23:01:01Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > You are entitled to your prediction of outcome.; so am I? I don’t need to predict what happened last year. > [@](#): > > My analysis is that the Scottish people will slide half accidentally into secession because of the way they see Scotland and the Scottish being treated. The SNP have a genuinely charismatic leader in Sturgeon. The trouble is, Scotland really is better off as part of the UK. We had that argument last year and we voted to stay in the Union. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/260 "2015-04-29T07:39:21Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I don’t need to predict what happened last year. But you DID predict what would happen. The full exchange was: ME: Scotland is right at the exit door waiting for reasons to stay. YOU: No it isn’t. Last year we decided to stay by a considerable margin, remember? You accidentally left out your prediction “No it isn’t (right at the exit door)” That is the prediction that you made- that Scotland is not at the exit door. I do fear that various forces are gathering that will split Scotland and England on irrational grounds. If it is to be avoided, skilled statesmanship will be necessary. It was crass opposition to independence that moved me away from federalism to reluctantly supporting separation. I suspect that this route will be followed by many more soft unionists if the current minimization of the SNP and the Scottish people is maintained across a parliament. What is currently happening is that SNP has reached over fifty percent in the polls. Now they managed 45% for independence when running at less than 30% in the polls. They now have an ideal springboard to another term at Holyrood and the possibility of a short sharp referendum at the time of their own choosing. As I say it will take statesmanship to stop this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612.md?page=14)