# UK General Election May 2015 (Population Share Version) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 2, 2015, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612 "2015-04-02T10:29:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/341 "2015-05-06T16:17:40Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > Your post implied that a minority government would bypass Parliament with Orders-in-Council. Sorry if I misread, although it still appears that way to me. > > Otherwise I think your view of the next government is correct. Labour proposing not to coalesce with anyone doesn’t harm their chances of power, as the consensus of all the other parties, with the exceptions of DUP and UKIP, are that they will not do any business with the Tories. > > For the silly hay the Tories have been making about how ‘wrong’ it is for SNP MPs to influence a Labour government (which has disgusted many down here), I think they would deserve opprobrium if they then decided to shack up with the DUP. I disagree that the Tory argument is not powerful (however immoral and false it is). I expect the Tories to 1/ Stay in number 10 as long as possible, trying to form a government, possibly even to a Queens Speech? Claiming all the time that they are the only legitimate government. 2/ If at any stage it is removed and replaced by an opposing government it will use the Tory press to run campaigns to fan the flames of English nationalism and anti-Scottish sentiment claiming that the government is illegitimate. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/342 "2015-05-06T16:17:53Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > …in return for abandoning the tuition fees position, a major plank in the LibDem platform, and indeed pretty much everything else except an AV referendum which the Tories ruthlessly undermined, all the while acting as the whipping boys for the worst excesses of the Conservative Party. That’s a pretty raw deal. Those are all things that happened after the coalition had formed. But you were saying the lib dems got a raw deal because they ruled out forming a coalition with Labour too early. It doesn’t make sense – negotiations about how the coalition was formed in the first place is one thing, what happened afterwards is another. But I will agree with you that what happened after was the lib dems became the whipping boys. And the tories definitely didn’t play fair on AV (it wasn’t just a matter of promoting the other view they actively misrepresented the AV position). ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/343 "2015-05-06T16:49:23Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > Your post implied that a minority government would bypass Parliament with Orders-in-Council. Sorry if I misread, although it still appears that way to me. > > Otherwise I think your view of the next government is correct. Labour proposing not to coalesce with anyone doesn’t harm their chances of power, as the consensus of all the other parties, with the exceptions of DUP and UKIP, are that they will not do any business with the Tories. > > For the silly hay the Tories have been making about how ‘wrong’ it is for SNP MPs to influence a Labour government (which has disgusted many down here), I think they would deserve opprobrium if they then decided to shack up with the DUP. I disagree with parts of this. The Tories and DUP have been partners of sorts for a long, long time. A Tory DUP alliance is not news. Of course Labour have every right to organise a coalition with the SNP. However, Labour opponents also have the right to condemn such an alliance. It’s not the “right” of such an alliance that will be controversial but any perceived political wrangling surrounding it. The only advice Labour need to listen to before coalescing with the SNP is; _Labour had better look as if they are playing hardball with the SNP_. If the English electorate perceive Miliband as being weak with the SNP then he will suffer at the polls in years to come. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/344 "2015-05-06T17:03:48Z")
There is no “English nationalism” at play here. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/345 "2015-05-06T17:11:26Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > There is no “English nationalism” at play here. In your humble opinion. Article after article in the last few days have pointed to Cameron’s appeal to English nationalism- English votes for English laws to hamstring Labour Governments Persistent briefing that a Government in any way dependent on Scottish votes of the SNP would be illegitimate Teresa May on the biggest crisis since the abdication Etc. I have no dog in this fight. We either get a further Conservative minority government from which all Scottish MPs bar a couple possibly are purposely excluded or a Labour minority government which will almost certainly introduce further federalism and fair votes. Both governments will be likely to rely on SNP positive or negative votes. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/346 "2015-05-06T17:14:40Z")
None of that has to do with English nationalism, it is an attempt to keep the Union functioning. Any English nationalist would be welcoming anything that helps Scotland leave, not trying to stop it. Are you confusing “England” and “The UK” again? ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/347 "2015-05-06T17:14:43Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > There is no “English nationalism” at play here. You can call it English nationalism or English regionalism. It is a latent force. Just because it’s not at the fore right now does not mean that will always be the case. An English electorate thinking the SNP are getting a sweet deal will resent it. And to be honest, Tory and UKIP politicians(and the media) have every right to stoke up the resentment. Every political party has its nasty side. Labour _do_ use class as a weapon(think Cameron as a posh Etonian); the SNP uses Scottish nationalism. English nationalism is waiting to be tapped into. Im not saying it’s a positive, but it is there. Politics being politics it will be exploited. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/348 "2015-05-06T17:19:06Z")
Being old enough to have campaigned for Wilson in 1965 and for Thorpe in both 1974 elections and for Ashdown in 92and seen the low majority parliaments that followed, I see problems ahead for both major parties. It is likely that the government party in the first months of the Parliament will lose MPs to sickness, scandal and situations over the first years of the government. The fixed term parliaments act will make it likely that transfer of power will be by resignation rather than calling an election. Interesting times. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/349 "2015-05-06T17:20:08Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > None of that has to do with English nationalism, it is an attempt to keep the Union functioning. Any English nationalist would be welcoming anything that helps Scotland leave, not trying to stop it. > > Are you confusing “England” and “The UK” again? No, never have, that’s your repeated error. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/350 "2015-05-06T17:33:16Z")
Daily Mail today fanning English nationalism and antagonising the Scots > **[Fears mount over election producing no 'credible' government](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3070063/Fears-mount-knife-edge-election-producing-no-legitimate-government-new-poll-reveals-70-voters-don-t-want-SNP-having-say-English-laws.html)** > > A poll released this morning has revealed mounting public concern over the prospect of the SNP putting Ed Miliband in Downing Street, even if he finishes with fewer votes and seats than the Tories. And again > **[John Major says Labour government with SNP will 'tear nation apart'](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3069804/Sir-John-Major-warns-Labour-government-propped-SNP-tear-nation-apart-Sturgeon-boasts-ll-plotting-Miliband-No-10-Friday.html)** > > The former Prime Minister spoke out as Nicola Sturgeon boasted that she would be ‘sitting across the table from Ed Miliband’ on Friday discussing how to put him in office. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/351 "2015-05-06T17:59:13Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Daily Mail today fanning English nationalism and antagonising the Scots > > [Fears mount over 2015's general election producing no 'credible' government | Daily Mail Online](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3070063/Fears-mount-knife-edge-election-producing-no-legitimate-government-new-poll-reveals-70-voters-don-t-want-SNP-having-say-English-laws.html) > > And again > > [John Major warns Labour propped by SNP will 'tear Britain apart' | Daily Mail Online](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3069804/Sir-John-Major-warns-Labour-government-propped-SNP-tear-nation-apart-Sturgeon-boasts-ll-plotting-Miliband-No-10-Friday.html) There’s no English nationalism in either of those. The first wants England to be treated as a region in the same way as Scotland within the Union, and the second wants the Union preserved. I’ve not seen any politician, ever, campaign on the basis that England should be an independent nation, and I suspect that the majority of English people have never given it a thought, and if they were to, would think it was absurd. English votes for English laws has nothing to do with nationalism, it has to do with giving England parity with the other members of the Union, rather than having less power as it currently does. Do you seriously think it’s right that a Scottish MP can affect laws over England, when an English MP cannot affect similar laws in Scotland? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/352 "2015-05-06T18:20:20Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > In your humble opinion. > > Article after article in the last few days have pointed to Cameron’s appeal to English nationalism- Go on then, list them. Your spurious Daily Mail links have already been debunked. > [@](#): > > Persistent briefing that a Government in any way dependent on Scottish votes of the SNP would be illegitimate Cite? > [@](#): > > I have no dog in this fight. That is not correct. You most certainly do as a citizen of the UK. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/353 "2015-05-06T18:20:26Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > There’s no English nationalism in either of those. The first wants England to be treated as a region in the same way as Scotland within the Union, and the second wants the Union preserved. > > I’ve not seen any politician, ever, campaign on the basis that England should be an independent nation, and I suspect that the majority of English people have never given it a thought, and if they were to, would think it was absurd. > > English votes for English laws has nothing to do with nationalism, it has to do with giving England parity with the other members of the Union, rather than having less power as it currently does. Do you seriously think it’s right that a Scottish MP can affect laws over England, when an English MP cannot affect similar laws in Scotland? I have no problem with an English Parliament within a federal structure with a Federal Parliament and rules about the relations between the various bodies. EVEL is simply a way to maintain Conservative vetoes over any non Tory government. EVEL anyway stands no chance. If we have a minority Labour Government they will not introduce it. If we have a minority Conservative Government the LibDems and DUP will stop it. Even a majority Tory government would have to get it through the Commons and convince the Lords which take a dim view of party political manipulation of the constitution and in which the Tories are a minority with Cross bench, lab, LibDems and others (don’t forget that hundreds of SNP Lords will be required by convention after the election.) I will post the latter as a separate thought. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/354 "2015-05-06T18:23:14Z")
There is a convention that the Lords should have an approximate balance of party MPs with the commons. If the SNP end up with 8% of the MPs that would require the creation of some eighty SNP Lords. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/355 "2015-05-06T18:26:18Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Go on then, list them. Your spurious Daily Mail links have already been debunked. > > Cite? > > That is not correct. You most certainly do as a citizen of the UK. You have to be joking. For the last week the two Tory dog whistles have been Trust us with the economy Stop the SNP interfering in government. Nothing in the Mail articles has been debunked. I do have no dog in the Westminster fight. I am interested in federalism, electoral reform and if necessary independence. Any minority government serves that purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/356 "2015-05-06T18:49:49Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Stop the SNP interfering in government. What does that have to do with English nationalism? ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/357 "2015-05-06T19:10:19Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > What does that have to do with English nationalism? If a party is using fear of the SNP to whip up anti-Scottish feeling and feed a message of England for the English to exclude all Scots from government, then that is using English nationalism. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/358 "2015-05-06T19:24:52Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > If a party is using fear of the SNP to whip up anti-Scottish feeling and feed a message of England for the English to exclude all Scots from government, then that is using English nationalism. You’re forgetting a couple of countries, and confusing Unionism with Nationalism. Anti-SNP feeling is not anti-Scottish feeling, and Unionism is what the majority of Scots support. I just hope the majority of Scots who oppose the SNP and independence get their act together and vote for whoever can beat the Nationalists, for the sake of both Scotland and the Union. And I say that even though it will likely mean a Labour government and all the problems that will go with it. The only way any of this is to do with England is with attempting to bring it up to being an equal partner in the Union. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/359 "2015-05-06T19:28:39Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > You’re forgetting a couple of countries, and confusing Unionism with Nationalism. Anti-SNP feeling is not anti-Scottish feeling, and Unionism is what the majority of Scots support. > > I just hope the majority of Scots who oppose the SNP and independence get their act together and vote for whoever can beat the Nationalists, for the sake of both Scotland and the Union. And I say that even though it will likely mean a Labour government and all the problems that will go with it. > > The only way any of this is to do with England is with attempting to bring it up to being an equal partner in the Union. Watch the press over the next few weeks. There is no indication that a majority of Scots are committed unionists. There is considerable evidence that Scots are not happy with the current settlement. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/360 "2015-05-06T19:29:12Z")
The vote was 55-45, IIRC. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612.md?page=19)