# UK General Election May 2015 (Population Share Version) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 2, 2015, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612 "2015-04-02T10:29:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/381 "2015-05-07T00:02:06Z")
Well, it’s always possible that the Scottish parliament will call a referendum, but it’ll have no relevance to what happens at Westminster. No government that wants to get re-elected would accept being bound by another one. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/382 "2015-05-07T00:26:51Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Well, it’s always possible that the Scottish parliament will call a referendum, but it’ll have no relevance to what happens at Westminster. No government that wants to get re-elected would accept being bound by another one. In your humble opinion. I believe we are close to the point where the English population of voting age are close to being as in favour of Scottish independence as the Scots. Much more shouting about SNP MPs being unacceptable in government, Barnett Formula, free prescriptions and university fees and so on will lift that up to a clear majority and then there will be English support for the party that offers to let Scotland go. You must admit that if both the English and Scottish people become separatist then maintaining the union would be extremely difficult. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/383 "2015-05-07T01:11:53Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > I don’t agree with them. I am a strong federalist and only a back seat separatist. > > But I do belong to the fanatics’ discussion groups although I am often banned for not toeing the line. > > It is not just the fanatics though. Among ordinary people there is a sea change occurring and I expect a solid majority for home rule to form and maybe even a majority for independence over this parliament. > > It will be almost impossible to resist. I think you’re underestimating how much this could affect the SNP itself. If they get ~50 MPs and some sort of role in government, however carefully worded and indirect it is, that changes things. It gives the SNP a much bigger role in UK policy than they have ever had. For all the fanatics who may despise Westminster, the actual politicians who represent the SNP in that parliament, ambitious individuals among them, may find that they rather like being close to, or even at, the levers of power. The SNP may become part of the Westminster establishment. The ideal goal of Scottish independence may be put on the back burner. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/384 "2015-05-07T01:14:13Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > I think you’re underestimating how much this could affect the SNP itself. If they get ~50 MPs and some sort of role in government, however carefully worded and indirect it is, that changes things. It gives the SNP a much bigger role in UK policy than they have ever had. For all the fanatics who may despise Westminster, the actual politicians who represent the SNP in that parliament, ambitious individuals among them, may find that they rather like being close to, or even at, the levers of power. The SNP may become part of the Westminster establishment. The ideal goal of Scottish independence may be put on the back burner. We shall see. I suspect the visceral hatred for Westminster will win as with Sinn Fein. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/385 "2015-05-07T01:29:37Z")
Enough. Hijack over. Discuss the election without shouting about Scottish devolution. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/386 "2015-05-07T01:40:50Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Enough. > > Hijack over. Discuss the election without shouting about Scottish devolution. OK, and I know that that was the premise of the thread, but in this election it’s a bit like being asked to discuss the Beatles without mentioning John or Ringo. The Scottish angle is a lot more than 8.5% of this election. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/387 "2015-05-07T01:43:46Z")
This opinion piece discusses a potential SNP Conservative agreement- don’t bring a Tory government down in exchange for devo max- everything other than defence and foreign affairs and VAT rates. It points out that this would effectively turn Westminster into and English Parliament with additional UK wide responsibilities for reserved powers. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/388 "2015-05-07T02:39:02Z")
Latest _Guardian_ polling: [General election 2015: Britain heading for hung parliament | General election 2015 | The Guardian](http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/06/general-election-2015-britain-heading-for-hung-parliament) ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/389 "2015-05-07T08:32:27Z")
[Petition for voting reform hits 60,000 signatures in one day](https://www.change.org/p/party-leaders-reform-our-voting-system-to-make-it-fair-and-representative), as Union bosses float the idea of [Labour offering voting reform to the Lib Dems to keep Cameron out](http://news.channel4.com/election2015/05/06/update-5192/) and polling indicates [60% of all Britons are now in favour of electoral reform](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/general-election-2015-sixty-per-cent-of-people-want-voting-reform-says-survey-10224354.html). ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/390 "2015-05-07T08:33:48Z")
Well this feels weird. My first election where, despite being a British Citizen, I have no right to vote. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/391 "2015-05-07T08:38:24Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > [Petition for voting reform hits 60,000 signatures in one day](https://www.change.org/p/party-leaders-reform-our-voting-system-to-make-it-fair-and-representative), as Union bosses float the idea of [Labour offering voting reform to the Lib Dems to keep Cameron out](http://news.channel4.com/election2015/05/06/update-5192/) and polling indicates [60% of all Britons are now in favour of electoral reform](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/general-election-2015-sixty-per-cent-of-people-want-voting-reform-says-survey-10224354.html). Do these people never give up? We’ve had two referenda on voting reform and Independence in this Parliament alone; both failed. The losing side never seem satisfied with the outcome. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/392 "2015-05-07T08:40:52Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > Do these people never give up? We’ve had two referenda on voting reform and Independence in this Parliament alone; both failed. The losing side never seem satisfied with the outcome. Well there is the minor problem that the voting reform one was a derisory effort by the Tories to placate the LibDems by offering a half-arsed idea that no one ever wanted in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/393 "2015-05-07T08:42:42Z")
We had a referendum on a shit voting system that’s even more unrepresentative of the electorate’s wishes than FPTP in a Tory-orchestrated stitch up, completely negating the point of electoral reform. People still seemingly want reform, so it looks like you’re just going to have to suck it up and deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/394 "2015-05-07T09:04:25Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Well there is the minor problem that the voting reform one was a derisory effort by the Tories to placate the LibDems by offering a half-arsed idea that no one ever wanted in the first place. It was still a referendum. We cannot have these on the same issue multiple times in such a short period. > [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > We had a referendum on a shit voting system that’s even more unrepresentative of the electorate’s wishes than FPTP in a Tory-orchestrated stitch up, completely negating the point of electoral reform. > > People still seemingly want reform, so it looks like you’re just going to have to suck it up and deal with it. I don’t trust the results of this poll in the slightest. Polling suggests the majority of Scots now want independence _only 6 months after fairly decisively voting against it_. People reply to these polls unthinkingly. When it comes to actual voting for or against people are usually more conservative. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/395 "2015-05-07T09:16:36Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > [Petition for voting reform hits 60,000 signatures in one day](https://www.change.org/p/party-leaders-reform-our-voting-system-to-make-it-fair-and-representative), as Union bosses float the idea of [Labour offering voting reform to the Lib Dems to keep Cameron out](http://news.channel4.com/election2015/05/06/update-5192/) and polling indicates [60% of all Britons are now in favour of electoral reform](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/general-election-2015-sixty-per-cent-of-people-want-voting-reform-says-survey-10224354.html). As I have said, this will ride on the back of fifty SNP MPs for less tan 4% of the vote and UKIP getting a couple for over 8% of the vote. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/396 "2015-05-07T09:18:22Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > It was still a referendum. We cannot have these on the same issue multiple times in such a short period. We can and probably will. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/397 "2015-05-07T09:20:00Z")
> [@Fuzzy wuzzy](#): > > It was still a referendum. We cannot have these on the same issue multiple times in such a short period. We both can and will. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/398 "2015-05-07T09:21:17Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > I don’t trust the results of this poll in the slightest. Polling suggests the majority of Scots now want independence _only 6 months after fairly decisively voting against it_. People reply to these polls unthinkingly. When it comes to actual voting for or against people are usually more conservative. Attitudes have changed and now something closer to home rule is desired. I can see a Status quo/Home Rule/ K dependence three way vote happening. I suspect that Home Rule would buy of Independence for a generation. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/399 "2015-05-07T09:26:38Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > We can and probably will. Thats far from certain. The most plausible reason for another referendum on voting reform is if our current system is unable to withstand the breakdown of our 2/3 party system. If it still delivers a relatively stable governmnent then no need to change. And having another election in 6 months time is not proof of failure. We have a system that has worked relatively well through many an emergency. One electoral failure is not enough to require change. I think this argument will be difficult to counter in any future debate on voting change. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612/400 "2015-05-07T09:45:15Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > It was still a referendum. We cannot have these on the same issue multiple times in such a short period. I see your point and there is an argument for leaving it some time. I don’t like the idea of “keep having a referendum until you get what you want”, but I’d argue there hasn’t been a referendum on proportional representation. “Voting reform” is far too vague a phrase. I’ve been explaining the UK system to a few people here over the past few days and they look at you like you’re mad. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-may-2015-population-share-version/716612.md?page=21)