# UK Green party peer suggests 6 pm curfew for men **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 15, 2021, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-green-party-peer-suggests-6-pm-curfew-for-men/937953 "2021-03-15T20:19:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-green-party-peer-suggests-6-pm-curfew-for-men/937953/181 "2021-03-19T01:06:25Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Is he also assuming that talking to all the other people who’ve been assuming the situation can’t change is useless, and nothing whatsoever will ever either get the Marshals and the Guard out there, or render it unnecessary to do so? > > Because if so: he’s wrong. That’s true. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-green-party-peer-suggests-6-pm-curfew-for-men/937953/182 "2021-03-19T06:07:13Z")
Because it’s 2021 and you’re not 18 years old? It’s not about it “being obvious”, it’s that _you were told_. I _know_ you don’t live in a cave, and women have been telling us this _for years_ now. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-green-party-peer-suggests-6-pm-curfew-for-men/937953/183 "2021-03-19T06:09:48Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I have also needed to have people point out to me my racism, and some other privileged positions. Again, it’s **2021**. You didn’t “need” them to, you were wilfully blind and pushing the work on others. I’m glad you’re not any more, but any full adult pleading ignorance rings a bit hollow in **2021**. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-green-party-peer-suggests-6-pm-curfew-for-men/937953/184 "2021-03-19T06:30:23Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > Where’s the public campaign telling men to speak up against harassment? You mean [this kind of thing](http://menengage.org/)? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-green-party-peer-suggests-6-pm-curfew-for-men/937953/185 "2021-03-19T07:03:11Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > How about they’re just related to “Tucker Carlson has enough material by inventing it, so progressive should stop giving him stuff that’s super easy to cause all of his viewers to froth up without the spin.” Well, that’s the thing, isn’t it? It literally doesn’t matter what we propose - it’s going to be spun as an attack on “men” by Tucker Carlson, and that spin is going to be believed 100% uncritically by his audience. We can put all the effort in the world into crafting the perfect, most inoffensive way of presenting our arguments imaginable, and the right is going to cast them as, “Liberals want to literally castrate all men.” ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-green-party-peer-suggests-6-pm-curfew-for-men/937953/186 "2021-03-19T08:03:11Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Again, it’s **2021**. You didn’t “need” them to, you were wilfully blind and pushing the work on others. I’m glad you’re not any more, but any full adult pleading ignorance rings a bit hollow in **2021**. Literally all I have heard on this topic is a very noisy argument about whose half of the human population is to blame. That noisy argument was something I recognised from afar as false and pointless, and that’s as close as I went to it. I nearly didn’t join this thread for the same reason. You’re being unhelpful and disingenuous by trying to turn this into a ‘blame’ issue. Please would you stop? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-green-party-peer-suggests-6-pm-curfew-for-men/937953/187 "2021-03-19T08:40:40Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Because it’s 2021 and you’re not 18 years old? It’s not about it “being obvious”, it’s that _you were told_ . I _know_ you don’t live in a cave, and women have been telling us this _for years_ now. I think this is something called Typical Mind Fallacy - Your familiarity with a thing, through your own exposure, seems to you to have been a universal phenomenon, and leads you to generalise a belief that all other humans must surely have been exposed to the same thing and must therefore be familiar with it, or else they must be wilfully ignoring it. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-green-party-peer-suggests-6-pm-curfew-for-men/937953/188 "2021-03-19T09:07:34Z")
Sort of. That kind of thing but backed and funded by government/institutions/civil society to the same extent that the prevalent “Women: always be nervous!” message is. It’s not like I thought no-one at all was saying these things - I work for a charity that does violence reduction work\* - just that they’re not getting anything like the airtime they need if they’re going to effect societal change. (\*So will be checking these guys out with a view to getting in contact - thanks!) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-green-party-peer-suggests-6-pm-curfew-for-men/937953/189 "2021-03-19T09:10:05Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Literally all I have heard on this topic is a very noisy argument So all of #MeToo passed you by? > [@Mangetout](#): > > You’re being unhelpful and disingenuous by trying to turn this into a ‘blame’ issue. And I’d say the same for all men trying to _dodge_ blame. > [@Mangetout](#): > > I think this is something called Typical Mind Fallacy No, I think this is the Reasonable Person principle. This is not about the minutiae of South African culture, this is patriarchy and the lives of half the women in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-green-party-peer-suggests-6-pm-curfew-for-men/937953/190 "2021-03-19T09:38:51Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > So all of #MeToo passed you by? I don’t know what that is ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-green-party-peer-suggests-6-pm-curfew-for-men/937953/191 "2021-03-19T09:41:31Z")
So you responded to Sam Stone in [this post](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brits-whats-a-zombie-knife/816315/113) without actually knowing what he was talking about? That’s leaving aside that that means you’ve been completely out of touch with all major news sources for the past several years… ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-green-party-peer-suggests-6-pm-curfew-for-men/937953/192 "2021-03-19T09:43:47Z")
Sam Stone hasn’t posted in this thread ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-green-party-peer-suggests-6-pm-curfew-for-men/937953/193 "2021-03-19T09:44:57Z")
Did I say he had? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-green-party-peer-suggests-6-pm-curfew-for-men/937953/194 "2021-03-19T09:45:28Z")
What the actual fuck now? > [@MrDibble](#): > > So you responded to Sam Stone ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-green-party-peer-suggests-6-pm-curfew-for-men/937953/195 "2021-03-19T09:45:54Z")
That post isn’t in this thread. But it does mention #MeToo. You know, that global social movement [with global effects](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Me_Too_movement#Impact) that you claim to be completely unaware of. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-green-party-peer-suggests-6-pm-curfew-for-men/937953/196 "2021-03-19T09:49:31Z")
Sorry about that, links aren’t very easy to see on my screen in this board software. Yes, I responded to Sam Stone in that post without recognising the significance of that hashtag. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-green-party-peer-suggests-6-pm-curfew-for-men/937953/197 "2021-03-19T09:53:44Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > That’s leaving aside that that means you’ve been completely out of touch with all major news sources for the past several years… I wouldn’t say out of touch, but I do strictly ration my intake of depressing current affairs, and I don’t think I’m the only one to do that. If I may, I would summarise your astonishment here (regarding me) as 'Not only were you _ignorant_, but you also _didn’t know you were ignorant!_ " When in fact they are the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-green-party-peer-suggests-6-pm-curfew-for-men/937953/198 "2021-03-19T10:01:45Z")
What’s your theory of change here? Shaming men for not listening to women or for being unwilling to change or examine their own behaviours can be a powerful tool for getting people on side. Imposing costs on the attitudes you don’t want is good sense. Shaming men at the very moment they start listening to women and become willing to change and examine their behaviour on the grounds that they didn’t do it before and thus imposing costs on exactly the change you’re trying to bring people towards helps who exactly and in what way? Why are you giving Mangetout a harder time for saying that this conversation has helped him rethink his role in this issue than you are, say, the poster who made his first post in 6 months to explain how men are the really oppressed ones? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-green-party-peer-suggests-6-pm-curfew-for-men/937953/199 "2021-03-19T10:02:41Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Yes, I responded to Sam Stone in that post without recognising the significance of that hashtag. So, you’re unaware of the entire last several years of gender conversation, but you feel confident in assessing it from outside as just a “pointless noisy argument”? Do you still think your opinions should be given any weight in this? You’re admittedly uninformed yet willing to judge what the conversation is about. How is that helping? > [@Mangetout](#): > > I wouldn’t say out of touch Yes, very much so. This isn’t some side issue, this is a _huge_ social movement. > [@Mangetout](#): > > If I may, I would summarise your astonishment here (regarding me) as 'Not only were you _ignorant_ , but you also _didn’t know you were ignorant!_ " No, my astonishment is that it’s _you_, specifically. I would not be surprised if it were some Fox News-only American conservative. But you’re connected to the world - you run a youtube channel, you live in a Western country, you hang out here (and not just in MPSIMS or the Game Room). ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-green-party-peer-suggests-6-pm-curfew-for-men/937953/200 "2021-03-19T10:03:25Z")
I’m not staying here just to be beaten up by you for admitting that I was out of touch on an important issue. Fuck off. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-green-party-peer-suggests-6-pm-curfew-for-men/937953.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-green-party-peer-suggests-6-pm-curfew-for-men/937953.md?page=11)