UK ID card proposals: civil liberty infringement vs. combatting terrorism.

I haven’t seen a convincing one yet.
Blunkett’s campaign for ID cards over the last 2 years and the reasons for them have had several incarnations: Entitlement cards to stop benefit fraud, ID cards to stop illegal immigrants and or asylum seekers, illegal workers and finally TERRORISM.
An ID card is bad enough in itself, but it’s the database that supports it is the danger. We still haven’t been told what Biometric and personal details will be held. To input this initial data (presumably names and addresses etc.) is going to be a mammoth task possibly involving temporary workers. The opportunity for identity fraud is increased. The Home Secretary says that “Accredited Organisations” such as Banks will be able to access this data. There will be many more though, but he didn’t say who. Whatever data is decided upon as necessary for this database you can bet that over time more and more “Accredited Organisations” will be anxious to get their hands on that personal data. It could be possible that the Biometric information will be a retina scan, so when you buy your train/bus ticket, or go to hospital or any transaction in fact it will all be logged. “They” will begin to have a complete record of your every activity.

It may even come to this. Get your tinfoil ready.
Operator: “Thank you for calling Pizza Delivery. May I have your national ID number?”

Customer: “I’d like to place an order.”

Operator: “I must have your number first, sir?”

Customer: "My National ID Number. Just a sec. It’s 1-4343-7658-1234-987W

Operator: “Thank you, Mr. Smith. I see you live at 149 London Road, and the phone number’s 0208-7111-6123. Your office number at Happy Valley Squirrel Foods is 1-87755-9802, and your mobile number’s 7780-1266-8866 Email address is smitty@ coldmail.co.uk. Which number are you calling from, sir?”

Customer: “Eh? I’m at home. Where did you get all this information?”

Operator: “We’re wired into the NID, sir.”

Customer: “The NID, what is that?”

Operator: “We’re wired into the National Identity Register, sir. This will add only 15 seconds to your ordering time”.

Customer: (Sighs) “Right, well, I’d like to order a couple of your Spicy Meat Special pizzas.”

Operator: “I don’t think that’s a good idea, sir.”

Customer: “How no?”

Operator: “Sir, your medical records and commode sensors indicate that you’ve got very high blood pressure and extremely high cholesterol. Your NHS consultant won’t allow such an unhealthy choice.”

Customer: “What the f**k? What do you recommend, then?”

Operator: “How about our low-fat Soybean Pizza. I’m sure you’ll like it.”

Customer: “What makes you think I’d like something like that?”

Operator: “Well, you withdrew ‘Gourmet Soybean Recipes’ from your local library last week, sir. That’s why I made the suggestion.”

Customer: “OK, OK. Give me two family-sized ones, then.”

Operator: “That should be plenty for you, your wife and your four weans, and the 2 dogs can finish the crusts, sir. Your order comes to £39.99.”

Customer: “Jesus! Right, my credit card number is…”

Operator: “I’m sorry sir, but I’m afraid you’ll have to pay in cash. Your credit card balance is over its limit.”

Customer: “Right then. I’ll go out to the cash machine and get some folding money before your driver gets here.”

Operator: “That won’t work either, sir. Your bank account’s overdrawn too.”

Customer: “Never mind! Just send the pizzas. I’ll have the cash ready. How long will it take?”

Operator: “We’re running a little behind, sir. It’ll be about 45 minutes, sir. If you’re in a hurry you might want to pick them up while you’re out getting the cash, but then, carrying pizzas on a scooter can be a little awkward.”

Customer: “Wait a minute! How do you know I ride a scooter?”

Operator: “It says here you’re in arrears on your car payments, so your car was re-posessed last week. But your Vespa’s all paid for and you just filled the tank yesterday.”
Customer: " For f**k’s sake!!!"

Operator: “I’d advise watching your language, sir. You’ve already got a July 4, 2005 conviction for swearing at a traffic warden, and another one I see here in September for contempt at your hearing for questioning the parentage of the judge.” "Oh yes, and I see here that you just got out from a 30 day stay in the Wandsworth. Is this your first pizza since your return to society?

Customer: (Speechless)

Operator: “Will there be anything else, sir?”

Customer: “Yes, I have a voucher for a free 2 litres of Coke”.

Operator: "I’m sorry sir, but our ad’s exclusionary clause prevents us from offering free soft drinks to Diabetics. The New Constitution prohibits this. Thank you for calling Pizza Delivery.

Who is this ‘we’? :confused:

The Falklands was a completely unnecessary war (except that any conflict tends to help the incumbent by distracting attention from their mistakes).

The miners’ strike was a disaster for both ‘sides’. Nobody ‘won’.

Presumably you mean the poll tax was not a ‘victory’. I suppose it depends where you stand on the political spectrum. It looked pretty good for democracy to me. :slight_smile:

I could also have mentioned the various Conservative scandals, rail privatisation or the Major Government losing £15,000,000,000 :eek: :smack: in one day.
I agree Blair is behaving very badly over Iraq and ID cards. But there is a lot of competition for the ‘worst’ Government.

They still haven’t figured out how they’ll square this with the reciprocal agreement with Ireland, for citizens of either country being under no greater obligation to provide ID in the other (I’ve a vested interest in this, because I’m an Irish citizen, but have lived in England all my life…could prove interesting :wink: …)

Except that it just seems like a power trip, rather than any kind of serious attempt to curtail the forces of evil.

As a British citizen who’s lived in Ireland all my life, I’m wondering how they plan to issue me with mine and whether they expect me to carry it about even though I only visit GB/NI twice a year at most. The costs of rolling out proper secure biometics and card production facilities to every passport issuing body in the world, all the while networking these back to the mainland is gonig to be horrendous, not to mention the fact that you’re going to be relying on the intervening infrastructure.

I’m with the majority here in decrying this project as fundamentally anti-civil liberties and badly thought through. That said I think it’s likely to pass (due to the large labour majority) and die a slow death in the design and implementation stage taking rather a large chunk of government cash with it.

The Ireland-UK aspect of it interests me too. My British passport is up next year and if, according to someone here, that means I’ll get one of these new ID cards, I’m wondering whether or not I’ll need it for anything in particular. In the UK, I mean, I can’t imagine that we could be made to carry it while in Ireland, counsel wolf. How could they enforce it? Can you see the Gardai making routine swoops on known British citizens who are resident in Ireland to see if their foreign papers are in order? Not a chance.

Also, how does this all square up with the idea that all EU citizens have free rights of travel and residency within all the member states? Is there any kind of a plan to standardize ID cards in all of the EU countries?

Of course you’re right and I should have made myself clearer.

Sadly the British voters (no doubt like those in other countries) are easily aroused by scare stories. Then all thoughts of the balance between controlling crime and civil liberties disappear and they vote for the party that states it will be tough on crime.

Some examples, from a previous Conservative (=right-wing) Government:

'Home Secretary Michael Howard today defended the policy of handcuffing
women prisoners during hospital visits, which faces challenges in court and
from health workers.

Her solicitor Sarah Cleary will make a bail application, probably before= a
judge in chambers, at the Old Bailey today.
Today Ms Cleary told PA News: “I’ll be arguing for bail on all the usual
grounds and on compassionate grounds as well. She’s fairly seriously ill but being held in unthinkable conditions. She’s got tubes coming out of her and shackles too. She is wearing one handcuff, attached by a very long chain to a prison
officer, who wears the other cuff. There’s a second prison officer in the
room as well.”’

http://www.prisonactivist.org/pipermail/prisonact-list/1996-January/000168.html

'At the Conservative Party Conference last October, Home Secretary Michael Howard announced the abolition of the right to silence as part of his law and order package.

It has obvious attractions to a government in economic crisis. It will be a cheap measure. In an era of profit before people, it will cost nothing while giving the appearance of action. In fact it is not so much about money; nor is it about the legal niceties of the legal fraternity. Beyond the commission’s enquiry there has been little or no public debate, let alone any public mandate for such a far reaching proposal. The reasons are power, authority and control, particularly of speech.’

http://www.charter88.org.uk/pubs/violations/mansfld.html