Uk is going to stop sales of gas and diesel cars by 2040 (Now 2030)

In the UK the limit is about 9 hours and some rules about breaks. The rules are standardised across the EU.

The UK may not be a so big geographically, but there is a huge international haulage business across Europe and beyond.

Cars for personal transportation for urban commuters are probably easier to develop. There are some new electric trucks from some famous names in the business coming to market.

https://www.daimler.com/products/trucks/mercedes-benz/urban-etruck.html

In London the timetable for phasing out diesel buses is very aggressive. They intend to stop buying them in 2018, a fair number of London buses are already hybrids.

It will take a while before all the markets are covered and a container truck for the transcontinental haulage market will be a significant milestone. I think it will be a few years get before we get there and the infrastructure is in place.

It is remarkable what can be done if all the public regulations and tax incentives line up and a sophisticated industry like motor manufacturing decides to change direction.

Elon Musk and his Tesla will be a mere bagatelle in comparison.

:wink:

I like the idea of all cars on the road being electric by 2040. Im not sure how I feel about a ban on gas sales. What about your general farm/yard equipment that was well maintained and purchased prior to the ban?

Upthread someone mistakenly introduced the idea of a gasoline ban but this is absolutely not what is being proposed.

They’re not banning the sale of gasoline.

NOx aren’t visible; the main component of that white smoke many people fret about (they can see it, therefore they think it’s “dirty”) happens to be water. Visible contamination isn’t always the dangerous one.

A lot longer; even without going into the vintage market, I routinely see cars from before 1992 (the year Spain changed the codification in its plates). That’s cars over 25yo, in a country whose government routinely provides bonuses for removing your 10+ car from the road.

Building the infrastructure can mean things such as having charging stations in public parking lots; the following is from Pamplona’s newest public parkings. If you plug in the car, you get charged along with your parking charge. If you’re not plugging in, you’re supposed to use one of the regular spots. City hall put that in as soon as electric cars came on the market, to encourage their use. It’s a feedback loop similar to that of public transportation: more and better infrastructure encourages use, and a bigger market encourages the building of infrastructure.

Bump! because they’ve moved this up from 2040 to 2030!

Worth noting that this is for sales of NEW petrol and diesel cars, not used.

I wonder how it will work for someone like me - I live in a street of terraced houses, where parking is all curb-side. It’s a lucky day when I get to park outside my own house, so to have an electric car, we would need charging points all down the street. Maybe they could use the lampposts. I’m not against the idea at all, but some serious investment in charging infrastructure will be needed.

This issue arose recently for me wife who had the chance of choosing a new car from a prescribed company car list - they were all either diesel or electric. And my city is banning private diesel cars in the next couple of years.

(We eventually managed to persuade them to find her a petrol option).

For what its worth , in 2019 there were about 2million new registrations (900K private 1.1 million fleet / business) against 38 million total register vehicles.
So if they don’t see a significant rise in total number of registered vehicles over the years , which I think is a reasonable assumption, and if they maintain the current rate of new car sales from 2030 on, it’s going to take quite a while to burn down the current deployed stock of internal combustion engine (ICE) cars.
That said on the fleet / business side there may be an increase is sales as companies tend to depreciate light vehicle fleets on a 5 year basis and may want to standardize the fleet faster, I don’t know if there are any tax breaks or incentives to switch faster.

I would think the resale price of used ICE cars will hold up and people will just sit on their ICE cars a while longer until the recharging infrastructure gets up to speed so would expect to see a decrease
in new sales.

I assume they have the electrical infrastructure to handle all this?

I doubt any of us knows what you assume.

The AP story says that hybrid vehicles will be sold until 2035. And given that people usually keep cars for a decade or more, there will be plenty of gas/diesel cars on the road until 2040 or later.

Right now, there aren’t a big number of choices of electric cars, but over the next ten years, there should be many more on the market. (And remember that California has the same goal with the end date set to 2035.)

EVs have been the preserve of suburbanites who have off street parking and a charger connected to a home or business. This is a significant problem for anyone who lives in an apartment and in Europe a lot of people live in quite densely populated urban centres. Another factor is the standards for electricity supply. In the UK single phase power is norm, 3 phase is the exception for domestic supply. So charging is an overnight process.

In London I take careful note of how many EV chargers there are in my area of inner London. Little posts with blue lights next to street lamps are starting to sprout up on the kerbside. These charge at a fairly modest rate(4 to 6Kw). But they can solve the domestic charging problem for apartment dwellers.

The project to install them is a publicly funded Go Ultra Low Cities Scheme to install 1300 of them on streets across London. Street lamps have been converted to LED which use a fraction of the power. Steet lamps have a 25amp supply and I guess this spare capacity on an existing supply network can be used for charging.

The other signs of changes are the London taxis and buses. There is new design for taxi cabs that is becoming a common sight on the streets of London. These new designs are well regarded by drivers because they are comfortable, practical and cheaper to run. But they complain about the lack of reliable chargers. There are some quite strict rules coming in regarding a London Low Emission Zone that will price older cars out of the market. Yes you can drive an old polluting gas guzzler in the new Low Emissions Zone, but it will cost you £12.50 a day. It will be enforced by traffic cameras linked to a database of vehicle registrations. This is a very established technology in London, it has been running for many years in the central London congestion zone. The Low Emission Zone is going to be massively extended to cover a large part of London from 2021. I can see the rules being tightened progressively in years to come.

Fully electric buses are still quite rare, there will be about 250 operating by the end of 2020. There are also a handful of hydrogen powered buses. But there are 2,600 diesel-electric hybrids out of a total of 9,200 buses. The plan is to make all buses in London zero emission by 2037.

Politicians ploughing public money into these public transport projects has a huge influence. It is very difficult to wean motorists off big deisel SUVs unless there is a credible alternative.

But the combination of the Dieselgate scandal, which has weakened the influence of Big Auto on Environmental policy. Better monitoring of pollution and how it undermines public health during an emergency such as Covid.

All of this has concentrated the attention of politicians in a perfect storm. There is a cross party consensus in the UK that Environmental policy should be high on the politcal agenda and it looks Boris Johnson is running with it. The UK is hosting the UN Climate Change Conference this time next year and Boris wants to make a big splash, presenting the UK as power in the Green economy.

However, UK polticians are well known for their PR scams. Relabelling of budgets, lots of studies and hot air rather than real money and resources being directed into feel-good policies. There is a lot of cyncism, time will tell if it is justified or is the government going to put its money where its mouth is?

Part of today’s announcement is £1.3 billion to accelerate the roll-out of chargepoints for electric vehicles in homes, streets across the UK and on motorways across England, so people can more easily and conveniently charge their cars. Charging vehicles will become second nature and a part of everyday life, just like charging your mobile phone is today.

To meet future demand, the government is providing grants for homeowners, businesses and local authorities to install chargepoints, and is also supporting the deployment of rapid chargepoints. This had already supported the installation of over 140,000 residential chargepoints and 9,000 chargepoints for staff parking at businesses. Government has also already supported the development of a network of over 19,000 public chargepoints, including over 3,500 rapid devices, in partnership with local authorities and private sector investment, making it one the largest networks in Europe.

EV charging points announcement

I will be more convinced when all public transport of EV and the big car and delivery van fleets go electric. 10 years…9 years now. Will that be time enough for the auto industry to retool? Most European auto manufacturers are some way down that road but the cars are way too expensive and few models are in volume production.

The UK government is also saying that home natural gas boilers that provide much of domestic hot water and central heating will be replaced with electric boilers or converted to a hydrogen mix. The UK gas network is very extensive and pipes methane from the North Sea to just about every home. Consequently the UK uses half the electricity of similar sizes country such as France.

This is where I get a bit skeptical. That is a massive undertaking and could double the UK domestic electricity demand and this is going to come from a hugely expanded Wind energy program.

I guess we all need some good news in this time of Covid and Brexit but I worry about how these massive infrastructure projects are going to be paid for. Tax increases and bigger electricity bills?

It is a bold and ambitious plan, but is it credible?

Wow; fantastic post fillmstar-en.

The limiting factor on EV has been battery technology and huge strides have been made in the last 10 years. I think we’ll be more than ready in 2030.

Question: Have they considered the HUGE amount of waste thats going to need disposed of in 20-30 years? All those solar panels and batteries (some containing toxic chemicals) and even those giant turbine blades - they all have a shelf life and will need disposal.

So do ICE cars and trucks, refrigerators, mattresses, and just about everything else we produce. Are solar panels and batteries going to push us past a tipping point?

A Tesla cofounder, JB Straubel, has a company for recycling batteries. Redwood Materials.

I guess there is money to be made there.

Apparently the UK government annoucement regarding replacing domestic gas boilers by 2023 was a ‘mix up’.

The UK Government under the Boris Johnson is rather fond of grand announcements that subsequently evaporate. This one seemed to have vanished a bit quicker than usual.