Worth noting though, that strict primogeniture was not yet firmly established at the time of Richard I’s death. Different inheritance customs in different sections of the Angevin realm meant that John and Arthur’s competing claims were accepted in different areas.
All of them would have. One of the most interesting facets of the Norman conquest was that the native Anglo-Saxon nobility were almost completely displaced with a few years and their names with them. Edward and Edmund, and only those two, returned to the fold only under Henry III, who was fascinated by the cult of Edward the Confessor.
Harold ( like Sweyn, Canute and Harthacanute ) was actually a Scandinavian name and wasn’t typical even of the Anglo-Saxons. The Godwin dynasty was effectively Anglo-Danish ( Godwin’s wife was a Dane ) and Earl Godwin’s eldest sons all received Scandinavian rather than Anglo-Saxon names - Swegen/Sweyn, Harold and Tosti/Tostig. Only the youngest three ( Gyrth, Leofwine and Wulfnoth ) received more traditional Anglo-Saxon names.
Although the numbering now starts with William I, that was only ever retrospective. The use of regnal numbers only started with Edward III. And that was because he faced the problem of being the third Edward in a row. It had previously not been much of a problem referring to earlier kings in official documents, even when they happened to have the same name as the current king. But Edward III began to call himself ‘Edward III’ so that his father and grandfather could be distinguished as ‘Edward II’ and ‘Edward I’.
One by-product of this was that later when the numbers began to be applied to earlier kings, none of the pre-1066 King Edwards could be given numbers and, in any case, it was only with the name Edward that there was an issue at all. So, by default, the numbers were deemed to start with the Norman Conquest.
Just to piss off the English, my Scottish Nationalist friends used to refer to the current monarch as “Elizabeth I”. Because of course, she is the first Elizabeth to rule Scotland.
In Scotland, if we want to say that, we say ‘James the Sixth and First’ because he was the sixth James to be crowned king in Scotland before becoming the first James on the English throne…
Also applies to James the 7th & 2nd. We hadn’t had a monarch called Charles before the Union of the Crowns so the numbering was the same for them anyway.
Interesting–I was not aware that the numbering didn’t actually start until the reign of Edward III.
I expect that this is why most of the earlier kings had epithets associated with them to distinguish them, such as William Rufus (William II), Richard the Lionheart (Richard I), Henry of Winchester (Henry III), and Edward Longshanks (Edward I).
I believe Ralph is also out as a regnal name as well.
On a more serious matter, it should be mentioned that a ruler can take whatever regnal name he or she wants from their birth names (which is why many of them have scads of middle names to pick from). For example, the birth name of King George VI is Albert Frederick Arthur George, he chose the last one as his regnal name. (I recall that when QE2 was crowned, she was asked what her regnal name would be, and she replied quizzically with “Well, my own, of course!”)
Adressing Aspidistra’s Scottish Nationalist friends, the numbering scheme has a unique rule in it: the number must be the latest of whichever is in Scotland or England. So, a future Edward would be IX, even though there hasn’t been nearly that many Edwards regnant in Scotland. A future Robert would be IV, even though all three previous Roberts were kings of Scotland only. Churchill suggested this solution, and it turns out that all the monarchs since 1707 have adhered to this rule anyways!
George V and VI were decent kings – especially the latter, I would say. (I believe George V was named after his uncle, King George of Greece, who was Queen Alexandra’s favorite brother)
Yes – I think that’s when the name John started becoming taboo.
George III – actually, I believe the view of him in Britain is very different than in the U.S. He’s considered to be a quite popular and decent king.
