# UK Oath of Allegiance **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 11, 2008, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-oath-of-allegiance/440944 "2008-03-11T09:41:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2008, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-oath-of-allegiance/440944/1 "2008-03-11T09:41:44Z")
Ex-attorney general Lord Goldsmith ,is calling for such a ceremony as he says it would give teenagers a sense of belonging. In my opinion this is all Bollocks! and as Labour peer Baroness Kennedy says: “I think it’s all a bit silly” I’m an Englishman and fiercely proud of my country, I love it like no other and I certainly needed no Oath of Allegiance to make me feel the way I do. This country took care of me from the moment I was born, It ensured I never went hungry and was always there whenever I needed medical care. Goldsmith is also proposing a new public holiday to celebrate “Britishness” along the lines of Australia Day…now this I’m all for. We may no longer be number one in the pecking order but by fuck as far as I’m concerned we still are and always will be ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2008, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-oath-of-allegiance/440944/2 "2008-03-11T09:59:31Z")
I pledge allegiance to the fags Of the United Kingdom of Great Britain And Northern Ireland, And to the public houses for which it stands Four nations, under the weather, Fairly risible, With chicken tikka masala for all. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2008, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-oath-of-allegiance/440944/3 "2008-03-11T10:16:11Z")
No, no, no!! Chicken Rogan Josh for all…with Pilau Rice and 2 nan bread. And watch it sonny or you’ll be the first against the wall 😃 ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2008, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-oath-of-allegiance/440944/4 "2008-03-11T10:28:39Z")
I have reservations about pledging loyalty to a person who got their position by reason of birth. I would happily pledge loyalty to the country, but I’m in no way a royalist. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2008, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-oath-of-allegiance/440944/5 "2008-03-11T10:59:18Z")
[QUOTE=One And Only Wanderers] I have reservations about pledging loyalty to a person who got their position by reason of birth. I would happily pledge loyalty to the country, but I’m in no way a royalist. [/QUOTE] My nationality is also an accident of birth - why should I pledge loyalty to the place? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2008, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-oath-of-allegiance/440944/6 "2008-03-11T11:05:21Z")
I’d pledge an oath to the communities in which I live. Except I think pledges are nonsense, as all they are are spoken words, and most people are to an extent insincere, even though they don’t acknowledge it. ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Clanger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@Small\_Clanger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Clanger)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2008, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-oath-of-allegiance/440944/7 "2008-03-11T11:13:55Z")
No time to post any thoughts now, how about some context. [Modern Britain](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOOWJoriC1Y&feature=related) ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2008, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-oath-of-allegiance/440944/8 "2008-03-11T11:25:32Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] My nationality is also an accident of birth - why should I pledge loyalty to the place? [/QUOTE] National identity? For me it should just amount to a pledge to contribute to society, and not plan ways of living out your entire life on the take - along those lines anyway ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2008, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-oath-of-allegiance/440944/9 "2008-03-11T12:44:43Z")
[QUOTE=jjimm] I’d pledge an oath to the communities in which I live. Except I think pledges are nonsense, as all they are are spoken words, and most people are to an extent insincere, even though they don’t acknowledge it. [/QUOTE] Exactly - actions speak louder than words. Pledges are nonsense - if you care enough to make the pledge, you _don’t need to make the pledge_, if you don’t care enough, the pledge is just hot air. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2008, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-oath-of-allegiance/440944/10 "2008-03-11T13:11:08Z")
Pledges are ridiculous IMO. I just don’t see the point. What is it actually trying to achieve? Low level indoctrination is the worst case, a pointless exercise is the best. ---
**Author:** ![garius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e19b73/32.png) [@garius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garius)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2008, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-oath-of-allegiance/440944/11 "2008-03-11T14:41:02Z")
It’s a terrible idea and one that thankfully is so blatantly obviously stupid that even Parliament would never vote it in. Its also, somewhat ironically, hideously un-British. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2008, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-oath-of-allegiance/440944/12 "2008-03-11T14:44:26Z")
[QUOTE=One And Only Wanderers] not plan ways of living out your entire life on the take [/QUOTE] Like [these](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7288430.stm) lovely chaps: > [@](#): > > The agricultural sector would be in dire straits without the immigrants willing to do the hard graft on the land. Labour which can net workers up to £25,000-a-year with overtime. > > But that’s not enough to entice some of the local lads picking up their dole money in Peterborough. A constant trickle of young men are in and out of the office collecting their state benefits. But there’s little appetite for taking one of those vegetable-picking jobs of up to £7-an-hour. One group of lads: > > “No mate I’d prefer to sign-on than do that.” > > “I don’t want to work in like no cornfield.” > > “I don’t want to work with a load of foreigners.” Sure, a pledge’ll cure that. ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2008, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-oath-of-allegiance/440944/13 "2008-03-11T15:13:45Z")
[QUOTE=jjimm] Like [these](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7288430.stm) lovely chaps:Sure, a pledge’ll cure that. [/QUOTE] This made me double-take… > [@](#): > > Resident **Hema Patel** agrees. “They should put a stop to immigration totally,” she says “…whether they be Europeans, from the Far East, whatever.” I wonder what generation of immigrant you have to be before you can complain about them dirty foreigners? I’m the son of an immigrant, can I complain or would that priviledge fall on my future children and grandchildren? ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2008, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-oath-of-allegiance/440944/14 "2008-03-11T15:28:00Z")
You can make fifty thousand bucks a year doing field work in England? Holy crap, dude, our Mexican migrant workers are getting ripped the hell off! ---
**Author:** ![beanpod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9adbd/32.png) [@beanpod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beanpod)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2008, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-oath-of-allegiance/440944/15 "2008-03-11T16:30:57Z")
That’s what I’m saying, **Zsofia**. My husband made that after a year out of college. I make half that, still. Of course, differences in cost of living, etc, etc. Still, didn’t anyone ever tell them that there are poor people in backwards places like America who’d be happy to have that? [Quote=Slatzer] I wonder what generation of immigrant you have to be before you can complain about them dirty foreigners? [/quote] They could always take a cue from us Americans and just show up and start complaining about the natives. Then start complaining about the _other_ foreigners who show up later. Works like a charm. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2008, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-oath-of-allegiance/440944/16 "2008-03-11T16:49:01Z")
[QUOTE=Zsofia] You can make fifty thousand bucks a year doing field work in England? Holy crap, dude, our Mexican migrant workers are getting ripped the hell off! [/QUOTE] Yes, but your fifty thousand bucks buys a lot less there than here. Prices are generally 1 pound: 1 dollar. When I moved to the States (from Britain) the Pledge of Allegiance scared the shit out of me; every student in my 2nd-period class standing up and facing the flag and mumbling something I didn’t really understand. It got twice as scary once I got someone to explain what the words were. Reminded me of children in Chinese schools pledging their loyalty to the Party and State. Very bizarre. Anyway, what’s the point? British schoolchildren will have “improved” on it probably within 24 hours of the official version being released. While shepherds washed their socks by night All watching BBC The Angel of the Lord came down and switched to ITV… > [@](#): > > They could always take a cue from us Americans and just show up and start complaining about the natives. Good plan, but it’s hard to tell who the Celts are these days. Hardly anyone speaks Welsh or Lallans or even Gaelic… ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2008, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-oath-of-allegiance/440944/17 "2008-03-11T17:18:59Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] Exactly - actions speak louder than words. Pledges are nonsense - if you care enough to make the pledge, you _don’t need to make the pledge_, if you don’t care enough, the pledge is just hot air. [/QUOTE] Of course, when you _become_ an English citizen, if you weren’t already, you have to take a pledge. At least I did. I can’t remember for the life of me what was in it, though – I think I pledged in the Queen’s name not to be a naughty boy, but with fancier language. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2008, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-oath-of-allegiance/440944/18 "2008-03-11T17:36:18Z")
[QUOTE=Sal Ammoniac] Of course, when you _become_ an English citizen, if you weren’t already, you have to take a pledge. At least I did. I can’t remember for the life of me what was in it, though – I think I pledged in the Queen’s name not to be a naughty boy, but with fancier language. [/QUOTE] Probably something like this: > [@](#): > > “I, [name], swear by Almighty God that, on becoming a British citizen, I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Her Heirs and Successors according to law.” > > “I will give my loyalty to the United Kingdom and respect its rights and freedoms. I will uphold its democratic values. I will observe its laws faithfully and fulfil my duties and obligations as a British citizen.” First part is the oath, second part is the pledge. ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2008, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-oath-of-allegiance/440944/19 "2008-03-11T17:55:59Z")
You know, you’re absolutely right – that’s exactly what I pledged to. Good to have the reminder, especially since I was thinking of blowing up Parliament with 36 barrels of gunpowder! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2008, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-oath-of-allegiance/440944/20 "2008-03-11T19:45:31Z")
[QUOTE=Sal Ammoniac] You know, you’re absolutely right – that’s exactly what I pledged to. Good to have the reminder, especially since I was thinking of blowing up Parliament with 36 barrels of gunpowder! [/QUOTE] Well, it just says you have to bear true allegiance to the Queen. Doesn’t say anything about not blowing her or her ministers up. You’re obviously not a _real_ Englishman though. 36 barrels of gunpowder? Thirty-six? Whoever heard of such a thing? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-oath-of-allegiance/440944.md?page=2)