Excuse a partial response, but it’s late and I’m off to bed soon…
…but I’m still waiting for confirmation on just who is buried there:
"As documented by the acclaimed book One Day in September: The Full Story of the 1972 Munich Olympics Massacre, by Simon Reeve, the 8 terrorists who committed the Munich Massacre were:
Luttif Afif – Killed by West German Police at the scene
Yusuf Nazzal – Killed by West German Police at the scene
Afif Ahmed Hamid – Killed by West German Police at the scene
Khalid Jawad – Killed by West German Police at the scene
Ahmed Chic Thaa – Killed by West German Police at the scene
Mohammed Safady – Captured by West German Police
Adnan Al-Gashey – Captured by West German Police
Jamal Al-Gashey – Captured by West German Police
…Of the 8 terrorists listed above who perpetrated the atrocity, NONE are buried at the cemetery in Tunis that Corbyn visited:
Luttif Afif – Buried at Sidi Munaidess Cemetery, Libya
Yusuf Nazzal – Buried at Sid Munaidess Cemetery, Libya
Afif Ahmed Hamid – Buried at Sid Munaidess Cemetery, Libya
Khalid Jawad – Buried at Sid Munaidess Cemetery, Libya
Ahmed Chic Thaa – Buried at Sid Munaidess Cemetery, Libya
Mohammed Safady – Allegedly killed by Mossad, unknown grave
Adnan Al-Gashey – Allegedly killed by Mossad, unknown grave
Jamal Al-Gashey – Was reportedly still alive in 1999"
Of course that’s just one cite, but certainly I think there’s enough confusion over who’s buried there to prevent jumping to any conclusions yet.
In short, he’s spent his life taking sides and frequently of those who are enemies of the UK. The wreath laying was entirely in character and he can either be honest about his motivations and actions or not. Either will give him grief because his loyalties are a matter of record but by doing neither he looks impotent.
Ask the author of the article, he’s the one making the claim. He doesn’t use the word “enemy” but he does say that Corbyn in the past has been on the side of the PLO and the IRA. I’m happy for you to supply a equally succinct word that describes those organisations if you can think of one.
I can’t complain that you chose a 1984 reference as I do it often enough but it is a little ironic seeing as Corbyn is engaged (badly) in doublethink (he both laid a wreath and didn’t at the same time) and given his (not so distant) past associations I think the book is relevant for his words and actions.
Except that’s not actually what the article says, is it:
"Instead, in Israel/Palestine his position was not that of a healing conciliator of two warring peoples, but rather “to eradicate Zionism”, to cite the stated goal of the Labour Movement Campaign for Palestine of which he was a sponsor. In Northern Ireland, he was for republicanism and against unionism, taking part for example in a 1987 ceremony to honour not all victims of terrorism, but eight IRA gunmen killed by the SAS. As he put it at the time: “I’m happy to commemorate all those who died fighting for an independent Ireland.”
I was not aware that we were at war with Ireland or the Palestine, or had classed them as our enemies.
I paraphrased the article to get the gist across (which is only good mannners), the long version directly from the article is certainly more descriptive but really not any kinder to Corbyn.
You don’t have to be officially “at war” with an organisation for them to be an enemy. “political enemies” are a dime a dozen. But like I said. I used “enemy” as a shorthand for the status of relationships between the UK and the PLO or republican terrorists.
If I asked you to use a single word to describe the UK’s view of the IRA (instead of “enemy” ) what would you use? I’m open to suggestions but bearing in mind that the IRA had the premeditated intent of killing UK soldiers, politicians and innocent citizens…I’m struggling to think of a term that isn’t at least a little bit pejorative.
This is a fantastic example of just what is meant by a smear campaign.
As already posted above, he did not lay a wreath for any of the Munich terrorists, and indeed they’re not even buried at he cemetery in question. However for those who want to damn the man, it really did happen and proves he hates jews.
You are right that he didn’t directly lay a wreath for the Munich terrorists. However, it is not clear exactly what he did do, what wreath he laid and for whom (and wreaths were laid for problematic characters to say the least) and for his inability to know or care about the difference is a problem for him. As is the knowledge that his past pronouncements put him on the side of the PLO and IRA etc. Those are a matter of record and so it is a problem for him when he tries to claim that he would have nothing to do with honouring terrorists. He would, he has and now he is a bind because his deeply felt principles are in conflict with what he knows the public think is acceptable.
His problem, one of his own historic making and one he needs to be fully honest about. That was what the article said. Neither it or I thinks he hates Jews but I am pretty certain that he prefers the PLO over the Israeli state.
There comes a point where “paraphrase” becomes “misrepresents”.
For example, leaping from ““I’m happy to commemorate all those who died fighting for an independent Ireland” to “he supports the IRA”.
The phrase I’d use for the IRA, by the way, is “the IRA”. Personally I’d hope for a bit more nuance in political thought than Them/Us/Goodies/Baddies, especially when you’re talking about topics such as independence. Arlene Foster was able to attend the funeral of Martin McGuinness, as indeed was Bill Clinton. Do you view that as supporting enemies of the UK?
Cite please. And can I ask why you refer to the PLO, rather than the Palestinian people, yet the Israeli State rather than for example Likud. It’s akin to me saying you prefer the Lib Dems to the United Kingdom.
The actual perpertrators of Munich aren’t buried in the cemetery. The people who gave the orders are.
The four graves in question are those of:
Salah Khalaf, a founder of Black September;
Fakhri al-Omri, senior member of Black September;
Atef Bsieso, planner of Munich,
Hayel Abdel-Hamid, close adviser to Khalaf.
This Twitter thread provides exhaustive sources for these men’s invovlement in Black September. Including an interview with another founder of BS who names Khalaf as co-founder and intimately involved in Munich planning (for which the interviewee remains unapologetic).
It’s also notable that these graves are separate from the memorial to the victims of the 1985 airstrike. That’s entirely appropriate, as this is not how they died. These are the specific graves Corbyn was thinking of in 2014 when he wrote up his account of the meeting saying wreaths were laid “on the graves of others killed by Mossad agents in Paris in 1991” and they are the graves right next to which he is photographed holding a wreath.
and I was nowhere near it. What I wrote said pretty much what the article said and I provided a link to anyone willing to read the whole thing.
and you can show me where I made that leap and which of my posts you took that quote from? Just so we are all being careful not to misrepresent eh?
which is just dodging and everyone can see it. The IRA were very clearly and by their own definition an enemy of the UK. If they were not engaged in a war against the UK then their declaration that it was over is meaningless no?
So tell that to Corbyn not me, ask him to pull his foot out his mouth and express his thoughts clearly and in line with what we know his record suggests…if he can.
What was McGuinnness’s position at the point of his death? Was he still involved in an active armed campaign against the UK or was he involved in peaceful political efforts for change?
I have no cite and I don’t claim it as a fact but I believe it to be true. He could come out and change my mind tomorrow but his past decades of words and deeds, thus far, lead me to believe that he is on the Palestinian side against Israel.
Again, fine. It is a valid position but he is utterly shite at navigating his response when called on it.
The PLO was the organisation mentioned most prominently in the article, Israel as a state was also mentioned. Likud not at all.