# UK Snap Election: 8 June 2017 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 18, 2017, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690 "2017-04-18T10:08:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/363 "2017-05-15T09:37:50Z")
Why do you assume people aren’t familiar with current events - is there a point you wish to express? ---
**Author:** ![phaemon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/977dab/32.png) [@phaemon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phaemon)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/364 "2017-05-15T09:45:55Z")
Yes, the point I linked in the blog post. I agree with it, if that’s what’s unclear. Theresa May should not be allowed to get away with avoiding questions. Your own point would be better made if you posted something substantive yourself. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/365 "2017-05-15T10:06:26Z")
I think most people assume the Conservatives are in a holding position until the Manifesto is published this week. Once it arrives, presumably their policies will be fronted accordingly. I also imagine their will be less ‘IRA sympathiser’ type smearing after Fallon got his arse handed to him yesterday by the ever-impressive Thornberry (on Andrew Marr). First-rate execution, Madam. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/366 "2017-05-15T10:08:55Z")
Today, the Tories are talking about workers’ rights. Their proposals [are](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2017/may/15/general-election-2017-may-workers-rights-corbyn-nhs-politics-live?page=with:block-59196848e4b0a8ea08b6e3ba#block-59196848e4b0a8ea08b6e3ba): > [@](#): > > 1 - Protection for all workers’ rights currently guaranteed by EU law. The Conservatives will guarantee all rights that workers currently enjoy as we leave the European Union. > > 2 - A commitment to increase the national living wage in line with median earnings until the end of the next parliament in 2022. > > 3 - New protections for ‘gig’ economy workers, following the Matthew Taylor review that Theresa May established in one of her first moves after becoming prime minister. > > 4 - Representation for workers on company boards, under the Conservatives’ wider reforms to corporate governance. > > 5 - A new statutory right to receive information about key decisions affecting your company’s future, subject to reasonable safeguards, and in keeping with but not exceeding the rights of shareholders. > > 6 - A new statutory right to request leave for training purposes, to help workers gain the skills they need to retain good, well-paid jobs. > > 7 - A new statutory right to leave to care for a family member, in line with other countries. > > 8 - New rules to protect workers’ pensions from irresponsible behaviour by company bosses, like unsustainable dividends and takeovers that put the future of the pension scheme at risk. > > 9 - Reforms to the Equalities Act to extend protections from discrimination to those suffering fluctuating or intermittent mental health conditions. > > 10 - A statutory right to child bereavement leave, for those who suffer the tragedy of losing a child. > > 11- The introduction of new returnships for people returning to the labour market from a period of absence, including from parenthood and elderly care. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/367 "2017-05-15T10:14:27Z")
The Tories are not traditionally associated with a strong push for workers’ rights, so I’m inherently suspicious about the substance of these proposals. Based on interviews, it seems the proposal to have workers’ represented on boards doesn’t extend as far as having actual workers on the boards - rather, a non-executive director with the role of worker representation. Which could go one of two ways. Similarly, the right to take a year’s unpaid leave as a carer is of limited benefit to those who can’t afford to spend a year unpaid - those with savings and/or good credit scores could benefit, but many/most won’t. It’s also worth pointing out that there is no proposal to reduce or abolish the fees for employment tribunals, the introduction of which slashed the number of cases brought by workers, which suggests that if someone does lose their job for, e.g. requesting leave for training purposes, they won’t necessarily be in a position to enforce their statutory right to do so. And rights which can’t be enforced really aren’t rights at all. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/368 "2017-05-15T13:47:44Z")
I don’t know about the substance yet either but the rebranding is obv. aimed at the working class Brexit peole who are drifting from Labour \> UKIP (2015) and are now open to the Tories. Those new-ish flow charts are so revealing of all the undercurrents in the post-Brexit paradigm. Scroll down for fab graphing: [Subscribe to read | Financial Times](https://www.ft.com/content/76037a34-36ef-11e7-99bd-13beb0903fa3?desktop=true) ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/369 "2017-05-15T15:51:47Z")
> [@phaemon](#): > > That’s complete nonsense. The SNP have welcomed anyone from _any_ background as members. You keep repeating this idiocy without a shred of evidence. You are being wilfully blind. I have myself experienced anti-English racism. I’ve already mentioned the Quisling incident here in Aberdeen. And perhaps you’ve heard of Settler Watch, the anti-English organisation? Perhaps you’ve heard of Sonja Cameron, a SNP member and convicted racist? Supposedly she was suspended for two years but she still managed to get onto the SNP’s list for Stirling. And [here’s](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/07/snp-not-disciplining-senior-councillor-anti-english-remarks/) another Quisling incident just this year: > [@](#): > > A spokesman for the Nationalists confirmed that Dave Doogan, the depute leader of SNP-run Perth and Kinross Council, was not being disciplined for delivering a speech that referred to “quislings” and Scotland being “under the heel of foreign influence for 300 years.” You can plug ‘snp anti english racism’ into your favourite search engine and get lots more stories. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/370 "2017-05-15T15:59:02Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > I don’t know about the substance yet either but the rebranding is obv. aimed at the working class Brexit peole who are drifting from Labour \> UKIP (2015) and are now open to the Tories. James Naughtie made a similar point at a speech last week about how Brexit and Trump have really mixed things up and are causing shifts - which he didn’t like at all. ---
**Author:** ![phaemon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/977dab/32.png) [@phaemon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phaemon)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/371 "2017-05-15T18:44:26Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > You are being wilfully blind. > I have myself experienced anti-English racism. You are being wilfully ignorant. I have experienced anti-Scottish racism, in England. I’ve been called a “Jock”, a “Sweaty”, a “Porridge Wog”. What does that have to do with the SNP or any other political party? > [@](#): > > I’ve already mentioned the Quisling incident here in Aberdeen. Firstly, calling someone a Quisling may be offensive, but it is not being racist, no matter how you try and twist it. Secondly, there was no mention of the SNP or English/England on that graffiti. I already pointed this out. > [@](#): > > And perhaps you’ve heard of Settler Watch, the anti-English organisation? Nothing to do with the SNP. As you should know. > [@](#): > > Perhaps you’ve heard of Sonja Cameron, a SNP member and convicted racist? Yes, you mentioned her already. A german woman who got fined £80 23 years ago. > [@](#): > > You can plug ‘snp anti english racism’ into your favourite search engine and get lots more stories. I can plug ‘tory anti scottish racism’ in and get plenty of stories also. How about the Tory MP who told a schoolgirl to “Fuck off back to Scotland” when she said she’d vote for Independence? I guess you think that shows that the Conservative Party are racist? There’s certainly a better case to be made there. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/372 "2017-05-15T21:31:27Z")
> [@phaemon](#): > > You are being wilfully ignorant. I have experienced anti-Scottish racism, in England. I’ve been called a “Jock”, a “Sweaty”, a “Porridge Wog”. What does that have to do with the SNP or any other political party? Two wrongs don’t make a right. ---
**Author:** ![phaemon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/977dab/32.png) [@phaemon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phaemon)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/373 "2017-05-15T21:44:44Z")
In other words, nothing to do with the SNP at all. I notice you (once again) completely ignore the parts of my post that don’t fit with your narrative. Nothing to say on the Tory MP? I really wouldn’t care about your rather inane pronouncements on Scottish politics, were it not for the fact that it’s so poorly reported in the UK that there’s a chance that folk who don’t live in Scotland might mistake you for some kind of authority on the subject. In fact, you’re about as clued-up on Scottish matters as the Daily Express. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/374 "2017-05-15T21:52:17Z")
It’s about as interesting as Scottish football. Please, start a fucking thread. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/375 "2017-05-15T22:18:51Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > It’s about as interesting as Scottish football. > > Please, start a fucking thread. I’ll give you the decayed ruins of Scottish football, but have you considered making interesting posts about this election yourself? I would, but I’m in a state of existential despair about how fucked this all is. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/376 "2017-05-16T08:56:53Z")
You boy! What day is it? What day is it? Why, Labour manifesto day! ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/377 "2017-05-16T09:21:05Z")
Or even the ‘full costed Labour Party manifesto’. Unleash the smears … ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/378 "2017-05-16T11:18:57Z")
Costings doc is [here](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2017/may/16/general-election-2017-labour-tax-plans-manifesto-politics-live?page=with:block-591ad81be4b0f5ae171e2926#block-591ad81be4b0f5ae171e2926). Additional Spending: £48.6Bn Tax Measures: £48.6bn Borrowing to invest: £250Bn They do allow for uncertainty in forecast receipts, cutting £3.9Bn from the simple prediction based on current behaviour. Even so, I’m still a little skeptical that there’s £20Bn in corporation tax waiting to be raised, and very skeptical that there’s £6Bn in avoided tax to be easily snapped up. But there are no obvious black holes. By keeping new spending and new taxes equal, they stay on the same trajectory for erasing the deficit in current spending. This suggests that some elements of austerity (e.g. cuts to local government funding) are going to stay in place. There is a proposed £2Bn of spend on reversing cuts to Universal Credit following review of how best to do this. I don’t know enough to judge how big an effect this will have. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/379 "2017-05-16T11:39:16Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > I’m still a little skeptical that there’s £20Bn in corporation tax waiting to be raised, and very skeptical that there’s £6Bn in avoided tax to be easily snapped up. But there are no obvious black holes. They all do that, Tory and Labour alike. Pity about overlooking local government, but trying to put back some substance into it means revaluation for council tax and increasing local independence, a.k.a. “postcode lottery”, so I can see why that’s in the “keep quiet, too difficult” category. Incidentally, the manifesto in which Labour won the 1945 election had not a single costing for implementing Beveridge, creating the NHS, nationalising the railways, coal, gas and electricity and all the rest of it… ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/380 "2017-05-16T12:10:39Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > They all do that, Tory and Labour alike. Oh yeah, it’s typical “magic button” politics. “There’s a really easy way to do this obviously good thing, and the only reason those bastards haven’t is because they hate you. But when we get in power, no fear, we’ll push the button that makes it happen.” > [@](#): > > Pity about overlooking local government, but trying to put back some substance into it means revaluation for council tax and increasing local independence, a.k.a. “postcode lottery”, so I can see why that’s in the “keep quiet, too difficult” category. > > Incidentally, the manifesto in which Labour won the 1945 election had not a single costing for implementing Beveridge, creating the NHS, nationalising the railways, coal, gas and electricity and all the rest of it… Simpler, happier times! ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/381 "2017-05-16T12:58:06Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > I’m still a little skeptical that there’s £20Bn in corporation tax waiting to be raised, and very skeptical that there’s £6Bn in avoided tax to be easily snapped up. But there are no obvious black holes. I was interested to see just how far the Tories had gone on CT - do scroll down to the bottom chart: [http://election2017.ifs.org.uk/article/labour-s-reversal-of-corporate-tax-cuts-would-raise-substantial-sums-but-comes-with-important-trade-offs](http://election2017.ifs.org.uk/article/labour-s-reversal-of-corporate-tax-cuts-would-raise-substantial-sums-but-comes-with-important-trade-offs) ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/382 "2017-05-16T13:10:49Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > I was interested to see just how far the Tories had gone on CT - do scroll down to the bottom chart: > > [Labour’s reversal of corporate tax cuts would raise substantial sums but comes with important trade-offs - Election 2017 - IFS](http://election2017.ifs.org.uk/article/labour-s-reversal-of-corporate-tax-cuts-would-raise-substantial-sums-but-comes-with-important-trade-offs) Well, that’s competitive! I would love to see how that influenced inward investment as against the loss of tax revenue. Interesting article generally. I’ve also just seen that a spokesman for the IFS has said this: > [@](#): > > "The chance of getting £50bn are pretty small. You would get, I don’t know £20bn or £30bn, but the long run impact will be rather smaller than the £50bn that they are hoping for. > > The tax promises are uncertain, I think that would be the kindest way to put it … > > They’re looking at raising an awful lot of money from companies and from higher earners and the long run impact of the changes they are suggesting almost certainly wouldn’t raise the full £50bn. > > It would raise a lot of money. It seems to us is that if they were able to raise that amount that would take tax burden in the UK to its highest level in 70 years." [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690.md?page=20)