# UK Snap Election: 8 June 2017 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 18, 2017, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690 "2017-04-18T10:08:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/423 "2017-05-17T19:27:21Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > The Financial Times has again blocked me, but it seems [this interesting graphic](http://i.imgur.com/JuMXrpQ.jpg) about Leave/Remain and party allegiance comes from [this FT article](https://www.ft.com/content/85f4f7b2-3a58-11e7-ac89-b01cc67cfeec). What? You can’t see it but you think it’s interesting? This Sankey diagram is genuinely interesting and informative, as previously posted: > **[The rise of the ‘Re-Leavers’ points towards a Conservative landslide](https://www.ft.com/content/76037a34-36ef-11e7-99bd-13beb0903fa3?desktop=true)** > > Britain is not as divided on the question of Brexit as many suspect ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/424 "2017-05-17T20:32:39Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > What? You can’t see it but you think it’s interesting? The linked image is hosted on imgur, not on the FT site it originated on. I hope this helps you solve this mystery. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/425 "2017-05-17T23:45:03Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > The linked image is hosted on imgur, not on the FT site it originated on. I hope this helps you solve this mystery. The liked image turns out to be what I posted in post #366. One way or another, this thread is getting too weird for me. **Quartz** - nothing too personal but I have to put you on ignore for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/426 "2017-05-18T09:24:20Z")
So, the Conservative manifesto. There are some really astonishing proposals being reported. Astonishing because they show just how confident the Tories are. Ending the pension triple-lock. No cap on care costs. Ending universal winter fuel payments. What this says is that the Tories feel there opposition is so weak that they can afford to piss off older voters. The ones who win elections. “Don’t like it? Vote Corbyn then. Or those wishy-washy Lib Dems. Or that UKIP rabble.” Their internal polling must be showing them through the roof with the 55+. Which is not to say that some of these aren’t good ideas. But it’s a manifesto aimed at getting a mandate for some tough changes. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/427 "2017-05-18T09:38:31Z")
[And inevitably…](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2017/may/18/general-election-2017-theresa-may-conservative-manifesto-social-care-politics-live?page=with:block-591d6ab7e4b03ddbc8d5a9a6#block-591d6ab7e4b03ddbc8d5a9a6) > [@](#): > > The National Pensioners Convention says the Tory social care plans offer pensioners “the worst of all possible worlds”. This is from its general secretary, Jan Shortt. > > The Conservative’s manifesto pledge on social care offers the worst of all possible worlds for millions of older people and their families. It’s a Frankenstein’s monster of a plan which bolts lots of bad policies together and still fails to tackle the real unfairness in the care system. > > Every single pensioner needing care at home will now be forced to pay, regardless of their income, because for the first time ever the value of their home will be taken into account, whilst the number of those in care homes that will benefit will be relatively small by comparison. What makes it worse is that to pay for this proposal, around nine million pensioners are going to lose their winter fuel allowance and all pensioners will see the value of their state pension fall once the triple lock is removed. > > This plan has completely failed to spread the risk and cost of social care across society as a whole, and in effect has left the burden on the shoulders of millions of older people and their families. It’s actually quite unbelievable that the Conservatives, who rely on the support of older voters, would make such a controversial and punitive proposal. They clearly have no intention of solving the social care crisis. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/428 "2017-05-18T10:27:00Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > There are some really astonishing proposals being reported. Astonishing because they show just how confident the Tories are. Ending the pension triple-lock. Cutting down to a dual-lock, I’ve heard. > [@](#): > > Ending universal winter fuel payments. For rich pensioners only, apparently. Those with the level of income that would attract Labour’s extra tax. > [@](#): > > What this says is that the Tories feel there opposition is so weak that they can afford to piss off older voters. The ones who win elections. I agree. You didn’t mention the home care changes, which - if what I’ve read is correct - will hit the home-owning elderly very hard indeed. Edit: I see you did. We’ll see soon enough. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/429 "2017-05-18T10:31:10Z")
As you can tell, I wasn’t reading ahead. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/430 "2017-05-18T10:36:03Z")
Speaking of Tory incompetence, I rang up HMRC to pay off my National Insurance shortfall. You’d think that in this time of austerity, they’d be delighted and want my money ASAP. But no, I’ll get contacted in a couple of weeks. Umm… that really inspires confidence in the Tories’ competence, you know. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/431 "2017-05-18T10:42:54Z")
Gap down to 13 says YouGov this morning (Tory 45, Labour 32). What troubles me particularity about polls atm - so not including tactical voting, regional variance, ect - is they don’t include Undecided, and an awful lot are waiting to see (a) what the Tory Manifesto says and (b) if Corbyn ‘Man’s up’. Fwiw, I can’t imagine a worse campaign than what I’ve seen from the Tories so far … ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/432 "2017-05-18T11:10:15Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Fwiw, I can’t imagine a worse campaign than what I’ve seen from the Tories so far … Strong and stable! Stable and strong! ad infinitum… ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/433 "2017-05-18T11:12:50Z")
Anyway, sad to see that the proposed immigration cap _still_ includes students. That’s going to badly damage a sector that the UK is legitimately world class in. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/434 "2017-05-18T11:23:26Z")
…was legitimately World class in. Damage has been done since 2010. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/435 "2017-05-18T11:33:17Z")
Has anyone else noticed that it’s not a Tory / Conservative campaign but a Theresa May campaign? Look at how prominently (or rather, how discreetly) ‘Conservative’ is displayed on the campaign coach. Look at how prominently (or rather, how discreetly) ‘Conservative’ is displayed on the lecterns. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/436 "2017-05-18T11:54:04Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Has anyone else noticed that it’s not a Tory / Conservative campaign but a Theresa May campaign? Look at how prominently (or rather, how discreetly) ‘Conservative’ is displayed on the campaign coach. Look at how prominently (or rather, how discreetly) ‘Conservative’ is displayed on the lecterns. Yes, the Guardian has been full of snarky remarks about it, at least since the bus was launched. Marina Hyde this morning, on May and Hammond’s joint press conference: \*“Any shred of economic credibility which Labour had left has now been buried by Jeremy Corbyn and his acolytes,” he intoned. The only strong and stable option was “Theresa May and her Conservative team”. Come come, chancellor. Surely you should know she draws the line at the C-word? It’s Theresa May and her team. Phil doesn’t seem to have appreciated the stakes involved in the campaign chief’s memo banning Theresa May And Her Team from ever saying the word “Conservative”, though I suppose he only let it slip three times. A fairly close shave: if you say it five times, Lynton Crosby is summoned through a haunted mirror, and uses his meat hook to write your resignation letter in your blood.\* ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/437 "2017-05-18T11:56:50Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Gap down to 13 says YouGov this morning (Tory 45, Labour 32). > > What troubles me particularity about polls atm - so not including tactical voting, regional variance, ect - is they don’t include Undecided, and an awful lot are waiting to see (a) what the Tory Manifesto says and (b) if Corbyn ‘Man’s up’. > > Fwiw, I can’t imagine a worse campaign than what I’ve seen from the Tories so far … Between May and Corbyn’s respective campaigns, a lot of wavering Labour voters who were thinking at the beginning of the year they wouldn’t be voting Labour are being won back over. To what extent that’s horror at May/the Tories and to what extent its support for Labour’s manifesto/changing opinion on Corbyn is probably impossible to disentangle. Certainly, the failure of the Lib Dems to capitalise on a centrist, “Not austerity, not nationalisation” position has helped Labour considerably. Undecided, as I understand it, tend to break in pretty much the same proportion as the decided. But perhaps this year a lot of the undecided are wavering Labour voters, so there might be something there for Corbyn. It will be really interesting to see what happens to the voting intentions of pensioners in the first post-manifesto survey. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/438 "2017-05-18T11:58:17Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Anyway, sad to see that the proposed immigration cap _still_ includes students. That’s going to badly damage a sector that the UK is legitimately world class in. Yes. This is literally a promise to reduce economic growth. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/439 "2017-05-18T12:30:15Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Strong and stable! Stable and strong! ad infinitum… I think what’s important here is that Theresa May is clearly the person best placed to provide the country with the short, meaningless phrases it needs. Sorry, did I say “short, meaningless phrases”? I meant “strong, stable leadership” and definitely not “short, meaningless phrases”. Also: Brexit means Brexit! A negotiation is a negotiation! ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/440 "2017-05-18T13:07:22Z")
Yep, Egg on toast means egg on toast. I wish she’d finish the sentence; ‘Strong and Stable Austerity’ ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/441 "2017-05-18T13:16:51Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > Undecided, as I understand it, tend to break in pretty much the same proportion as the decided. But perhaps this year a lot of the undecided are wavering Labour voters, so there might be something there for Corbyn. That was the old paradigm. It hit the fan with Brexit. Labour has to try and stop the former UKIPers wavering towards the Tories, and even win some back. Ditto Remainers heading towards the LibDems and Tories. Add in London/Country, also the leadership issue and it’s 4D chess. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/442 "2017-05-18T13:23:01Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I think what’s important here is that Theresa May is clearly the person best placed to provide the country with the short, meaningless phrases it needs. That’s just lovely. Brilliant, even. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690.md?page=23)