# UK Snap Election: 8 June 2017 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 18, 2017, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690 "2017-04-18T10:08:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/703 "2017-06-02T10:28:21Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Indeed, but the right to hold those viewpoints should be held in respect. Hmm I think there’s a line beyond which respect is not deserved. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/704 "2017-06-02T10:57:43Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > After-dinner speeches aren’t reporting. Had he done that in his journalistic job, then it would indeed have been unprofessional. He was there because he was a BBC journalist. > [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > Hmm I think there’s a line beyond which respect is not deserved. You don’t seem to understand what I said. You don’t have to respect the person. You don’t have to respect what is said. You do have to respect the right of the person to say it. I believe in freedom of speech. That includes someone saying something that I find offensive. That includes someone saying something that you find offensive. I found Naughtie’s comments offensive; I still respect his right to say them and hold them. But his having said what he said diminished my respect for both him and the BBC. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/705 "2017-06-02T11:12:55Z")
Well we’ve got a new scandal today: [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-40129826](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-40129826) Any thoughts on what this could do for the vote? Storm in a teacup or yet another badly timed shock? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/706 "2017-06-02T11:50:21Z")
I think that the accused is entitled to the presumption of innocence. Sadly, though, I also think that it will be perceived as sleaze as normal. Labour were fined £20K last year, as were the Lib Dems. I’m not sure but I think the SNP are the only major party to have not been fined, but I think they have been investigated. For the edification of non-Brits, these prosecutions do have real bite: David Chaytor, a Labour MP, was sentenced to 18 months’ imprisonment. Fiona Jones, another Labour MP, was convicted but the conviction was overturned on appeal. Sadly, one report suggests this triggered her alcoholism which led to her death. The Financial Times has an article [here](http://blogs.ft.com/david-allen-green/2016/06/08/the-law-and-politics-of-the-conservative-election-expense-allegations/), referencing her. Note that it’s a year old. Quoting the relevant bits would go beyond fair use, so I’ll just excerpt two bits from near the end: > [@FT](#): > > Unless compelling evidence emerges of wrongful and dishonest intention – either on a personal level or as part of a conspiracy – then it is hard to see any charges or criminal prosecutions in respect of the allegations as they currently stand. > > If the facts can be explained away as people acting in good faith, dealing with expenses on which reasonable people can take different views or following what were understood to be the generally accepted practices of all political parties, then any criminal charges are unlikely. and > [@](#): > > The present UK law on electoral expenses is a mess… But the current allegations also signify something perhaps ugly about contemporary UK politics. There seems an increasing tendency for politicians and activists to seek criminal liability for their opponents, rather than to just defeat them in the ballot. This cannot be a good thing. Reporting a political opponent to the police should always be a last resort in exceptional circumstances, not a standard and casual political tactic. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/707 "2017-06-02T12:07:12Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Sure. He was present at a dinner as the after-dinner speaker. He said he was a liberal (not a Liberal) He talked about talking to an American couple and that they were utterly barking mad. For having a viewpoint with which he disagreed. Sorry, but that’s not on. Respecting free speech does not mean you have to refrain from mocking that speech. You say something stupid, you should expect to be called stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/708 "2017-06-02T12:16:23Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > Respecting free speech does not mean you have to refrain from mocking that speech. > > You say something stupid, you should expect to be called stupid. Absolutely. Just as you are free to speak, so you must accept responsibility for the consequences of what you speak. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/709 "2017-06-02T12:37:08Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Absolutely. Just as you are free to speak, so you must accept responsibility for the consequences of what you speak. Something tells me we’re all in agreement but saying it differently. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/710 "2017-06-02T12:51:13Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Absolutely. Just as you are free to speak, so you must accept responsibility for the consequences of what you speak. So which is it? He shouldn’t have said he thought they were crazy, or he should have? Because in this thread you seem to have maintained both. To quote you again: > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Quartz (snipped) > He talked about talking to an American couple and that they were utterly barking mad. For having a viewpoint with which he disagreed. Sorry, but that’s not on. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/711 "2017-06-02T13:39:10Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > So which is it? He shouldn’t have said he thought they were crazy, or he should have? Because in this thread you seem to have maintained both. To quote you again: Yes, he was free to say it. But he should not have done so. He’s a BBC reporter and in saying what he said - not respecting their right to hold that view - he has diminished the reputations of both himself and the BBC. He would have been better advised to be more professional and to not have said it. He was free to say it; now he suffers the consequences. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/712 "2017-06-02T14:47:11Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Yes, he was free to say it. But he should not have done so. He’s a BBC reporter and in saying what he said - not respecting their right to hold that view - he has diminished the reputations of both himself and the BBC. He would have been better advised to be more professional and to not have said it. He was free to say it; now he suffers the consequences. Journalists offer their opinions all the time - never read an op-ed? BBC News, when presented as such, must be impartial according to broadcast media rules, but it doesn’t stop individual journalists being able to express their opinions at appropriate times, such as this after dinner speech, when they are clearly NOT purporting to present a balanced news report. The BBC shows plenty of shows where journalists get to take pops at politics - Have I Got News for You being the obvious example. James Naughtie is also, these days, just an occasional ‘Special reporter’ for the BBC, which strongly suggests to me that he is freelance, so on his own time can basically say what he likes. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/713 "2017-06-02T15:00:58Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > Journalists offer their opinions all the time - never read an op-ed? Of course, but I’ve not read that sort of language in one. ---
**Author:** ![marineris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f07891/32.png) [@marineris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marineris)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/714 "2017-06-02T15:14:42Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > He was free to say it; now he suffers the consequences. That seems rather melodramatic. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/715 "2017-06-02T16:36:23Z")
Only a week to go now. I will cheer a Labour majority. I will cheer a Tory majority. Who runs the Union is less important than the Union itself. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/716 "2017-06-02T17:40:21Z")
I would only cheer a party whose views I shared, but I agree that party is far less important than country. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/717 "2017-06-02T18:02:59Z")
I’m expecting an increased Tory majority, but not by much. A loss would blow my mind. A hung Parliament would be amazing. I don’t know how I’d react to a Labour majority. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/718 "2017-06-02T20:07:50Z")
I mentioned upthread that I turned off the TV in disgust when Corbyn was on. Well, May is now on and I’ve again turned off the TV in disgust. Her answer to the question of payments to Europe as the divorce bill was utter waffle. She should have said something along the lines of, “Not a penny.” or, “They’re trying it on” And then the NHS. She was being questioned by a nurse about the lack of a pay rise and she kept saying, “I respect your position.” instead of pointing out that the nurse was in the same job doing the same thing and therefore had not earned a pay rise. Pathetic. Neither Corbyn nor May seem up to the job. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/719 "2017-06-02T20:17:10Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > And then the NHS. She was being questioned by a nurse about the lack of a pay rise and she kept saying, “I respect your position.” instead of pointing out that the nurse was in the same job doing the same thing and therefore had not earned a pay rise. Pathetic. Do you know what happens when annual wage increases are below the rate of inflation, **Quartz**? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/720 "2017-06-02T20:20:06Z")
I’ll just leave [this](http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2017/05/31/graffiti-election-poster-norwich-proves-simple-effective-bit-subversion/) splendid picture from The Poke. 🙂 (SFW but innuendo.) ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/721 "2017-06-02T20:24:04Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Do you know what happens when annual wage increases are below the rate of inflation, **Quartz**? Yes. And your point is? Pay rises don’t happen automatically. She could have tried for a better - higher paid - job and has not got one. Or maybe she did and failed. What has she done to **earn** that pay rise? ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/722 "2017-06-02T20:25:20Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Do you know what happens when annual wage increases are below the rate of inflation, **Quartz**? Hush, everyone knows there’s a magic jobs tree and anyone who is stuck in the same dead-end job for years is just lazy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690.md?page=37)