# UK Snap Election: 8 June 2017 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 18, 2017, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690 "2017-04-18T10:08:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/723 "2017-06-02T20:29:16Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > Hush, everyone knows there’s a magic jobs tree and anyone who is stuck in the same dead-end job for years is just lazy. Try that in the private sector and see how far you get. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/724 "2017-06-02T20:41:00Z")
I’m watching the Question Time ‘debate’ on the Sky News app here in the USA. May didn’t come off looking very good in the first part of the questions from the audience. Corbyn has looked good up to now, he’s stumbling over the nuclear weapons question, but I really wonder why this issue is getting so much attention. No one is seriously thinking that there will be a first nuclear strike on the UK from Iran or North Korea. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/725 "2017-06-02T20:44:51Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Try that in the private sector and see how far you get. Well lucky for us, not everything _is_ the private sector - the NHS being one of them. It’s siclly, but for some saving lives matters, but still have to afford to live. ---
**Author:** ![marineris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f07891/32.png) [@marineris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marineris)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/726 "2017-06-02T20:48:00Z")
I firmly believe that NHS nurses should be cherished, even those not good enough to get a more important, better paid job elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/727 "2017-06-02T20:51:44Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > What has she done to **earn** that pay rise? Yeah what do nurse DO? She’s been a nurse for, what, 26 years? She’s likely at the top of her band, and for the past seven years has seen her income effectively fall. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/728 "2017-06-02T22:05:30Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Yeah what do nurse DO? She’s been a nurse for, what, 26 years? She’s likely at the top of her band, and for the past seven years has seen her income effectively fall. You might recall that I too used to work in the state sector, and in a hospital to boot. Pay rises are not automatic. They have to be earned. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/729 "2017-06-03T00:10:37Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > You might recall that I too used to work in the state sector, and in a hospital to boot. Hahaha, let me consult my SDMB database. Nope, you only show up in the “Thinks nuking Buenos Aires is an appropriate strategy in a Falklands dispute” and “Umbrella!?!?” subcategories. Tell me about your experience of being in the same building as some nurses, and the insight that brings. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/730 "2017-06-03T01:22:22Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I’ll just leave [this](http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2017/05/31/graffiti-election-poster-norwich-proves-simple-effective-bit-subversion/) splendid picture from The Poke. 🙂 (SFW but innuendo.) Innuendo and out the other! ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/731 "2017-06-03T06:52:22Z")
So the only way you can ‘earn’ a pay rise is by being promoted? It’s not suitable to simply do your own job damn well and save lives? Even when inflation makes it impossible for you to live, and yet you cannot _get_ a better job because 100 other people apply for every position, and there’s no automatic career path? As someone who does work in the public sector, this is an insulting, ignorant and infuriating attitude. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/732 "2017-06-03T10:21:31Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Hahaha, let me consult my SDMB database. > > Nope, you only show up in the “Thinks nuking Buenos Aires is an appropriate strategy in a Falklands dispute” and “Umbrella!?!?” subcategories. > > Tell me about your experience of being in the same building as some nurses, and the insight that brings. Do not make this into a personal feud. If you want trade insults, go open a thread in The BBQ Pit. EVERYONE tone it down. This thread is moving away from debate toward nothing but exchanges of cheap shots. Knock it off. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/733 "2017-06-03T10:57:51Z")
The problem is the poster who provokes and then hits the ‘Report button’, again and again. And I’m sure he will do the same wit this post. Fwiw, I don’t care about warnings, do what you like - I’ve obv. committed another terrible offence. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/734 "2017-06-03T11:37:16Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > So the only way you can ‘earn’ a pay rise is by being promoted? It’s not suitable to simply do your own job damn well and save lives? Unions have made it more or less impossible to earn a pay rise by doing your job well in many places, due to insisting people get paid the same regardless of how well they perform. And unless your contract says otherwise no, you don’t have a right to annual rises. Which isn’t to say public sector workers shouldn’t get them, just that it’s not an automatic right, and shouldn’t be treated as one. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/735 "2017-06-03T11:53:28Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > And unless your contract says otherwise no, you don’t have a right to annual rises. Which isn’t to say public sector workers shouldn’t get them, just that it’s not an automatic right, and shouldn’t be treated as one. I suspect the point is a rise is not a rise if it doesn’t keep pace with inflation, it is a real world cut. And on that basis, nurses pay has been cut by 15% in less than 8 years - hence some full-time nurses, by virtue of universal credit and other top up mechanisms, are reduced to using food banks. This, of course, falls under the policy of ‘austerity’, now revealed to be bogus in principle and an attack on working class people. ---
**Author:** ![marineris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f07891/32.png) [@marineris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marineris)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/736 "2017-06-03T13:12:54Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Unions have made it more or less impossible to earn a pay rise by doing your job well in many places, due to insisting people get paid the same regardless of how well they perform. To be honest, at the end of a week that saw Ian Paterson jailed for carrying out unnecessary surgery on multiple patients, probably - at least in part- for financial reasons, I’m not sure that PRP is a good fit with healthcare provision. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/737 "2017-06-03T15:44:54Z")
Latest YouGuv poll gives the Tories only 308 seat. Hung parliament? > **[Tories will lose out on majority by 18 seats, latest YouGov results find](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/election-2017-theresa-may-hung-parliament-majority-jeremy-corbyn-conservative-labour-yougov-poll-model-opinion-latest-a7771186.html)** > > Poll gives Tories 42 per cent of vote, putting Labour only four points behind Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/738 "2017-06-03T15:55:15Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Latest YouGuv poll gives the Tories only 308 seat. Hung parliament? > [Conservatives to fall 18 seats short of majority, latest YouGov poll model suggests | The Independent | The Independent](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/election-2017-theresa-may-hung-parliament-majority-jeremy-corbyn-conservative-labour-yougov-poll-a7771186.html) YouGov’s results have consistently been the most favourable to Labour this cycle, so we’ll have to see. There’s a slew of polls due this evening. I’ll try and post them all once they’re out. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/739 "2017-06-03T16:25:58Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > I suspect the point is a rise is not a rise if it doesn’t keep pace with inflation, it is a real world cut. Oh, I understand that. Doesn’t change the fact the a rise of any sort, whether in line with inflation, above, or below, is not a right. > [@](#): > > And on that basis, nurses pay has been cut by 15% in less than 8 years - hence some full-time nurses, by virtue of universal credit and other top up mechanisms, are reduced to using food banks. > > This, of course, falls under the policy of ‘austerity’, now revealed to be bogus in principle and an attack on working class people. Nurses, on almost £24k a year starting salary, are now “working class”? Bollocks. No-one earning that amount needs charity, they need to plan better. That starting salary is only £4k below the average wage, it’s not by any standards a low amount. That said, given the trouble the NHS is having recruiting and retaining nurses, it should be higher. But that’s because of market forces, not because of nonsense about nurses being impoverished. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/740 "2017-06-03T16:29:47Z")
> [@marineris](#): > > To be honest, at the end of a week that saw Ian Paterson jailed for carrying out unnecessary surgery on multiple patients, probably - at least in part- for financial reasons, I’m not sure that PRP is a good fit with healthcare provision. I’m not sure rewarding mediocrity is a good fit for healthcare provision, either. Some mechanism should exist to reward those who do their jobs well. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/741 "2017-06-03T19:01:32Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Nurses, on almost £24k a year starting salary, are now “working class”? Bollocks. I’m not very good with Google and so just picked the first link: > **[NHS pay scales 2016-17 | Royal College of Nursing](https://www.rcn.org.uk/employment-and-pay/nhs-pay-scales-2016-17)** > > Pay scales for NHS nursing staff in England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland from 1 April 2016. Also, why are you talking about salary when the issue under discussion was Tory real money pay cuts. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690/742 "2017-06-03T19:58:36Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > There’s a slew of polls due this evening. I’ll try and post them all once they’re out. They’ve started to arrive, and they are all over the place. Comres has the Tories 12 points ahead, and Survation only 1 point ahead. Crucial to this is the assumptions they are making about turnout, particularly among the young. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690.md?page=36) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-snap-election-8-june-2017/784690.md?page=38)