# UKIP 'Common Sense Tour' bus crashes **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 28, 2014, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukip-common-sense-tour-bus-crashes/687203 "2014-04-28T18:47:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukip-common-sense-tour-bus-crashes/687203/1 "2014-04-28T18:47:15Z")
This happened right next to where I work today - the UK [del]Xenophobic[/del]Independence Party ‘Common Sense Tour’ bus crashed into the parapet of the train station in Portsmouth (as it was performing a U turn to avoid crashing into a low bridge). Not much more to say, except that everyone present, pointing and laughing, definitely seemed to appreciate the irony. [http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/local/ukip-bus-crashes-into-portsmouth-station-1-6025252](http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/local/ukip-bus-crashes-into-portsmouth-station-1-6025252) ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukip-common-sense-tour-bus-crashes/687203/2 "2014-04-28T18:57:03Z")
Self-reported for forum change (could have sworn I posted this in MPSIMS) ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukip-common-sense-tour-bus-crashes/687203/3 "2014-04-28T19:50:38Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Not much more to say, except that everyone present, pointing and laughing, definitely seemed to appreciate the irony. > [@Mangetout](#): > > Self-reported for forum change (could have sworn I posted this in MPSIMS) [nm]ha ha[/nm] ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukip-common-sense-tour-bus-crashes/687203/4 "2014-04-28T19:59:27Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Self-reported for forum change (could have sworn I posted this in MPSIMS) So moved. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukip-common-sense-tour-bus-crashes/687203/5 "2014-04-28T20:47:33Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > [nm]ha ha[/nm] Yeah, but at least I didn’t crash any buses today. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukip-common-sense-tour-bus-crashes/687203/6 "2014-04-28T22:59:12Z")
Laughing at these yobbos has been traditional ever since they were called Mosley’s Blackshirts. [I wonder if it was anywhere near Cable Street.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cable_Street) ---
**Author:** ![Dervorin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Dervorin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dervorin)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukip-common-sense-tour-bus-crashes/687203/7 "2014-04-29T08:17:43Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Laughing at these yobbos has been traditional ever since they were called Mosley’s Blackshirts. > > [I wonder if it was anywhere near Cable Street.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cable_Street) Well, no. Because Cable Street is in London (just round the corner from where I live, incidentally) and the bus crashed in Portsmouth, which is about 75 miles away. Near by cosmic standards, perhaps, but not really by human ones. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukip-common-sense-tour-bus-crashes/687203/8 "2014-04-29T10:20:14Z")
I see from the article that UKIP’s “Common Sense Bus” had > [@](#): > > only one passenger on board Sounds about right. All the other UKIPpers were probably riding the “Rabid Xenophobia Monorail”. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukip-common-sense-tour-bus-crashes/687203/9 "2014-04-29T12:04:53Z")
I started wondering… do UKIP canvass door to door? If so, what do they do when the person who answers the door isn’t conspicuously White British? ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukip-common-sense-tour-bus-crashes/687203/10 "2014-04-29T13:25:50Z")
I don’t want to turn this into a political discussion, but “not wanting to be a member of the EU” is not the same as “xenophobic”. UKIP represents the first category - the fact it may attract members of the second category is unfortunate, those people should stick with the BNP/EDL. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukip-common-sense-tour-bus-crashes/687203/11 "2014-04-29T13:29:49Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I started wondering… do UKIP canvass door to door? If so, what do they do when the person who answers the door isn’t conspicuously White British? Even better, what do they do when the person who answers the door is White British, but their partner isn’t? “We think there are too many foreigners stealing our jobs…um…although obviously some of them are OK. I’ll just go now.” ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukip-common-sense-tour-bus-crashes/687203/12 "2014-04-29T13:47:44Z")
> [@Dead\_Cat](#): > > I don’t want to turn this into a political discussion, but “not wanting to be a member of the EU” is not the same as “xenophobic”. UKIP represents the first category - the fact it may attract members of the second category is unfortunate, those people should stick with the BNP/EDL. It’d be nice if that were true, but UKIP does not solely present itself as “wanting out of the EU”: The [recent poster campaign](http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/23/attacking-ukip-racist-campaign-counter-productive-immigration) with the pointing finger was explicity xenophobic - “26 million foreigners want to steal your job” xenophobic. Farage’s last [conference speech](http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/wider-political-news/farage-tells-of-languages-on-train-trip.23568023) dwelt on how awful it was to be on a train and hear people speaking anything other than English. They [campaign](http://web.archive.org/web/20100704035614/http:/www.ukip.org/media/policies/PPimmigration.pdf)to “end support for multi-culturalism and support one common British culture”. Page 1 of the [current manifesto](http://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/themes/5308a93901925b5b09000002/attachments/original/1397750311/localmanifesto2014.pdf?1397750311) is about immigration, not leaving the EU. Page 2 links immigration to crime. They’re not attracting racist nutbars by accident. They’re attracting racist nutbars because they’re explicitly xenophobic to the extent that racist nutbars think they’ve found common cause. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukip-common-sense-tour-bus-crashes/687203/13 "2014-04-29T14:01:50Z")
> [@Dead\_Cat](#): > > I don’t want to turn this into a political discussion, but “not wanting to be a member of the EU” is not the same as “xenophobic”. UKIP represents the first category - the fact it may attract members of the second category is unfortunate, those people should stick with the BNP/EDL. When you say ‘may attract’, don’t you really mean ‘is composed of’? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukip-common-sense-tour-bus-crashes/687203/14 "2014-04-29T19:18:13Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I started wondering… do UKIP canvass door to door? If so, what do they do when the person who answers the door isn’t conspicuously White British? Their shtick is that they’re not racist but that they want out of Europe so the UK can control immigration. Unfortunately there appear to be a fair few racists in UKIP. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukip-common-sense-tour-bus-crashes/687203/15 "2014-04-29T19:49:07Z")
I wonder if the driver is any relation to the pilot who was flying that plane that [crashed](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmG0qCVIDNc) while flying Nigel Farage and a UKIP banner around? I think the message is: never get on board a vehicle that has been hired by UKIP. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukip-common-sense-tour-bus-crashes/687203/16 "2014-04-29T21:44:14Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Their shtick is that they’re not racist but that they want out of Europe so the UK can control immigration. Unfortunately there appear to be a fair few racists in UKIP. I’d say the racism is pretty much systemic. It’s not accidental or coincidental at all - some of them are just worse at hiding it than others. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukip-common-sense-tour-bus-crashes/687203/17 "2014-05-01T17:50:51Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > It’d be nice if that were true, but UKIP does not solely present itself as “wanting out of the EU”: > > The [recent poster campaign](http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/23/attacking-ukip-racist-campaign-counter-productive-immigration) with the pointing finger was explicity xenophobic - “26 million foreigners want to steal your job” xenophobic. > Farage’s last [conference speech](http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/wider-political-news/farage-tells-of-languages-on-train-trip.23568023) dwelt on how awful it was to be on a train and hear people speaking anything other than English. > They [campaign](http://web.archive.org/web/20100704035614/http:/www.ukip.org/media/policies/PPimmigration.pdf)to “end support for multi-culturalism and support one common British culture”. > Page 1 of the [current manifesto](http://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/themes/5308a93901925b5b09000002/attachments/original/1397750311/localmanifesto2014.pdf?1397750311) is about immigration, not leaving the EU. Page 2 links immigration to crime. > > They’re not attracting racist nutbars by accident. They’re attracting racist nutbars because they’re explicitly xenophobic to the extent that racist nutbars think they’ve found common cause. Well, I must admit you have done a much better job of denouncing UKIP than the recent Guardian article on the same subject, which basically boiled down to “they say they’re not like other parties, but some of their politicians act like other politicians” and “some of their members have said silly things”. I don’t think you have to equate the “foreigners wanting your job” with xenophobia (much less racism), it is a genuine concern but I agree it is overplayed by UKIP. But I have to admit your other three points are too close to the line. To be honest, I’m still tempted to overlook this because I think many aspects of the EU are a gigantic waste of money (certainly in terms of an extra level of bureaucracy that I think we are better off without). In practice, UKIP aren’t going to win a majority but I’d be happy to see them gain more influence so that we can finally have our referendum, which I expect to give us a more informed debate than we have managed thus far. ETA: I’m not against restricting immigration if it’s for the right reasons - “British jobs for British people” isn’t xenophobic, it’s just trying to improve our economy/reduce our benefits bill. But I can’t deny that there is a concern that too many members of UKIP are in favour of it for the wrong reasons. So on balance, I will probably still vote UKIP where possible - particularly in European elections. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukip-common-sense-tour-bus-crashes/687203/18 "2014-05-06T13:10:00Z")
Without wishing to get all Great-Debatesey on you, there’s a considerable amount of work on the economic impact of immigration to the UK - the conclusion of which is that it’s a small net positive. Similarly, people who come over to work tend to pay more in tax than they claim in benefits. Cites available if you’re interested. On a wider point, it’s instructive to think about how businesses will respond if immigration is halted/limited. Will they shrug and spend more to employ the same labour force? Or will they move as many jobs as they can to e.g. Romania because when they do the sums, Set-up costs + Romanian wages + Transport is less than Stay here + Native Brit wages? Even where they do say, those added costs are going to get passed on. I’m not sure how much better it is for the economy for, say, food prices to rise (and agriculture does employ a lot of immigrants) given how many people already can’t afford food. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2014, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukip-common-sense-tour-bus-crashes/687203/19 "2014-05-08T09:55:23Z")
You make some fair points. As you say, this is not the place to extend this debate (I’m sure it’s been done to death in GD but I rarely venture in there) but I just wanted to clarify that I’m not particularly against immigration, and I would not dispute that it is in fact a small net positive. What I resent is the billions spent on Brussels bureaucracy, very little of which benefits anybody in my view. So in other words, the exact position of UKIP. That is why it would be unfortunate if racism and xenophobia over-runs the party, as it seems to be in danger of doing (but I think we’re a fair way off the tipping point). In addition, it would seem possible to have immigration restrictions that would change the current small net positive to a larger net positive, by only accepting immigrants who are deemed of economic and social benefit. It wouldn’t be easy to administer, even in theory, but it could perhaps be done. I believe Australia has a similar policy and their economy has weathered the recession better than many.