# Ukraine.... your predictions? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 22, 2014, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukraine-your-predictions/681948 "2014-02-22T13:05:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukraine-your-predictions/681948/61 "2014-02-23T07:43:52Z")
as usual the common denominator in most current conflicts gave it’s statement this morning “The U.S. supports duly elected Rada & new Speaker on the path towards constitutional change, coalition government & early elections.” hahahahahaha … amazing isn’t it ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukraine-your-predictions/681948/62 "2014-02-23T07:53:51Z")
I have to say, **Marmite Lover** , that I’m really touched by your concern for the welfare of the Jewish people. You’ve given me renewed hope that our two countries, Egypt and Israel, can set aside our difference and truly become friends at last. ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukraine-your-predictions/681948/63 "2014-02-23T08:04:56Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I predict that the US government and other Western powers will eventually be outed as the impetus for the revolution if not for providing material support. The lapdog media ignored the substance of the Nuland call because it was evidence of such a conspiracy. They instead participated in gossip and speculation about who recorded the call. Nuland also gave a speech where she boasted of 5 billion dollars spent in Ukraine to give them the “future they deserve”. With the participation of John McCain visiting the “protesters” just as he visited the US backed opposition in Syria, we have circumstantial evidence of US meddling. We had a situation in which a powerful US senator is openly showing support for an opposition calling for the overthrow of a democratically elected government with other US officials plotting in the darkness about who will be installed in power. It is absolutely incredible that nobody in the media is pointing this out. What if Vladamir Putin visited an armed Tea Party encampment in Washington DC calling for the ousting of Obama from office while Dmitri Medvedev was recorded on the phone about a plot to install Ted Cruz as president? It is absolutely shameful behavior. Ukrainian police showed incredible restraint for months before the fascist (quite literally) elements of the opposition could no longer be ignored. > > This is going to end terribly. The US timed this so that Putin would be hamstrung with the Olympics. It is an incredibly reckless move by the US government. I just hope that Putin backs down. They should work out a solution whereby the country is split up, that’s the only peaceful way out. Otherwise you’ll have a war over control of the state apparatus that could be catastrophic. TOTALLY AGREE with this post Yet again we have US meddling and interference in another nations affairs and the usual face of Mc Cain lurking and stirring up trouble somewhere as in Libya and Syria with his opposition rebels jihadists whatever you want to call them. In Egypt we are lucky and managed to stop the USA meddling to keep Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood in power, with our army and with the help of the Gulf . In Egypt it is only now that the full face of the US meddling using Egyptian dual national bloggers and activists and their foreign journalist partners with the help of Al Jazeera and CNN and other various US media outlets, has been revealed to us in Egypt. ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukraine-your-predictions/681948/64 "2014-02-23T08:52:12Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I have to say, **Marmite Lover** , that I’m really touched by your concern for the welfare of the Jewish people. You’ve given me renewed hope that our two countries, Egypt and Israel, can set aside our difference and truly become friends at last. I have no problem with the people who practice Judaism. What they believe in and worship is not my business but they are people of the book and we all know much about their long history from their own book and prophets and our book tells us to protect them as long as they are not plotting or fighting against us. It was Muslims who protected Jews when the Christians were murdering them, it was the Sultan of Constantinople who sent ships to Cadiz in Spain when Isabella and Ferdinand was slaughtering them to save them, but you never hear the Jews mentioning this or any other thing about Muslims saving Jews. Our problem is the creation of Israel and Zionism. It has caused nothing but misery and death and hatred and if the idea was proposed now in the British Government, knowing history which we all are supposed to learn from, the man proposing it would be thought to be insane and it would never be allowed to happen because we all know that you cannot just expect to invade a land and take it over by force without any resistance from it’s people. European Jews and athiests can’t just land on another persons shore and give them 1 hour to leave their homes and land to become refugees or shoot them dead like what happened to Palestinians in Al Ramla and all the other villages. They even turned on and killed the British who helped them get what they wanted with their terrorism. They had no loyalty to even them and maybe that’s why they are persecuted wherever they go. They can’t be trusted. Egypt and Israel will never be friends. You can dream that but it will never happen. You cannot have a friendship with one who cannot be trusted. One who steals what is not theirs. You cannot have a friendship until there is justice and respect in the relationship. If ever the zionists realise this which I doubt then there might be reconciliation between the peoples but there has to be justice first. It’s very sad after all this time, but this is the situation that we and the UN and honest people are in regarding the crimes of the zionists and zionism. It’s foundation is criminal. Our religion teaches us theft is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukraine-your-predictions/681948/65 "2014-02-23T09:03:42Z")
That’s too bad, because we aren’t going away. Egypt and Israel will _always_ be neighbors, and since it profits neither of us to be enemies, we might as well be friends. Anyway, I apologize for the hijack. ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukraine-your-predictions/681948/66 "2014-02-23T09:12:08Z")
again much anti American feeling in media and internet over what is happening in Ukraine now even some Americans are realising they need to look beyond their MSM to get an idea of the madness of their own foreign policy and it’s effects around the world and the hatred building and building and building… seems while Putin plays chess, the Americans have lost their minds and are playing the dangerous game of Roulette ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukraine-your-predictions/681948/67 "2014-02-23T09:41:23Z")
[http://www.rus-obr.ru/days/29655](http://www.rus-obr.ru/days/29655) On the first day post coup opposition anti semitic and fascist party Svoboda leader issues statement in the parliament **Proposes that speaking Russian in Ukraine will be treason offence and all Russian not be granted citizenship in Ukraine** video here [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btLWSn6cfp8) ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukraine-your-predictions/681948/68 "2014-02-23T09:51:48Z")
What you don’t get on US MSM Neo Fascists made up the majority of the euromaidan protestors English video [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgqFd9pPaS0) Julia Tymoshenko the US and Western coup backed face did not get the welcome that was expected when she went on stage ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukraine-your-predictions/681948/69 "2014-02-23T10:03:34Z")
“I’m in Crimea now, locals talking about a run on the banks, no cash in ATMs, some say they’d welcome Russian annexation” “Ukraine’s eastern regions and Crimea talk of seceding at summit with Russian delegates, say national parliament has been seized by radicals” “On idea of Crimea annexation, don’t forget its ethnic Tatars. They’ve been a major force in euromaidan and would likely **make a mean jihad** ” Simon Schuster Time Magazine ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukraine-your-predictions/681948/70 "2014-02-23T10:14:13Z")
Vitaly Churkin Russian ambassador to the UN on Western powers role in the situation in Ukraine statement “Either they don’t understand the consequences of what they’re doing or they are engaged in a very provocative game of destabilizing Ukraine and therefore Eastern Europe” ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukraine-your-predictions/681948/71 "2014-02-23T10:26:04Z")
**‘I’ll be fighting Jews and Russians till I die’: Ukrainian right-wing militants aiming for power** Back in 1994, Muzychko, aka Sashko Bilyi, arrived in **Chechnya** to join separatist forces. He took part in numerous battles with federal troops, mainly in the capital Grozny, and personally knocked out three tanks, six armored personnel carriers and a SP vehicle… > **['I'll be fighting Jews and Russians till I die': Ukrainian right-wing...](https://www.rt.com/news/ukraine-right-sector-militants-210/)** > > Kalashnikov-wielding members of Ukraine's radical nationalist opposition group, Right Sector, have pledged to resort to arms in their fight against those involved in "lawlessness" and looting, saying they will shoot to restore "order and discipline." Yarab!! what a mess ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukraine-your-predictions/681948/72 "2014-02-23T10:38:29Z")
Ukraine Opposition leader Yatsenyuk caught making the Nazi salute to protestors [![](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BhGU3AIIgAAkPRD.jpg) ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BhGU3AIIgAAkPRD.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukraine-your-predictions/681948/73 "2014-02-23T10:44:09Z")
> [@marmite lover](#): > > ukraine opposition leader yatsenyuk caught making the nazi salute to protestors > > [https://pbs.twimg.com/media/bhgu3aiigaakprd.jpg](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/bhgu3aiigaakprd.jpg) you are crazy. No doubt about it, you are insane. ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukraine-your-predictions/681948/74 "2014-02-23T10:47:10Z")
> [@](#): > > A group of young Maidan Square protesters, members of the Nazi organization Ukrainian People’s Self-Defense (UNA-UNSO), were trained in NATO terrorist camps in Estonia, in 2006. > > The training included manufacturing and handling of explosives, as well as shooting. > > These young people went to fight alongside Georgian forces during their aggression against South Ossetia. > **[Maidan activists trained by NATO in 2006](https://www.voltairenet.org/article182058.html)** > > A group of young Maidan Square protesters, members of the Nazi organization Ukrainian People’s Self-Defense (UNA-UNSO), were trained in NATO terrorist camps in Estonia, in 2006. > The training included manufacturing and handling of explosives, as well... ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukraine-your-predictions/681948/75 "2014-02-23T11:06:39Z")
The Pravy Sektor fascist far right group released a statement and called for ARMED national revolution STARTING TODAY!! “For us, Europe is not the issue, in fact joining with Europe would be the death of Ukraine. Europe means the death of the nation state and the death of Christianity. We want a Ukraine for Ukrainians, run by Ukrainians, and not serving the interests of others.” Obama and Co I hope that your MSM is showing you this on your TV screen this morning before you head out to the golf course!! ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukraine-your-predictions/681948/76 "2014-02-23T14:35:46Z")
What fundamental hidden truth do you think you’re revealing to the world with your breathlessly shrill hysterics, **Marmite Lover**? Is it that Ukraine has a long and storied history of anti-semitism and pro-fascism? Because that isn’t news and hasn’t been news for well over a century. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukraine-your-predictions/681948/77 "2014-02-23T16:03:03Z")
A couple of points: (1) the chicken little telling Jews to flee is not the “Chief Rabbi” but merely “a rabbi”. To be exact, a Chabad rabbi who is Kremilin-affiliated. (2) So far, exactly no anti-Jewish violence has been on display by the rebels. > **[Ukrainian rabbi tells Kiev's Jews to flee city](https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/2014-02-22/ty-article/ukrainian-rabbi-to-jews-flee/0000017f-f8db-d318-afff-fbfb63420000)** > > Fearing violence against Ukraine's Jews, the Jewish community asks Israel for assistance with the security of the community. > [@](#): > > Correction (Feb. 22, 4:20 P.M.): An earlier version of this report incorrectly described Rabbi Azman as the chief rabbi of Ukraine. Azman is not the country’s chief rabbi, but one of two rabbis challenging the official chief rabbi, Yaakov Bleich, in Kiev, and like most Chabad rabbis, is aligned with the Kremlin. As a Jew who is married to a Ukrainian woman, naturally I have some interest in the matter. My conclusions are that, while there are a minority of ultra-right wing Ukrainians who are participants, and these are anti-semitic, the current rebellion has nothing to do with Jews or Jew-hatred. Rather, each side has attempted by hook or by crook to paint the other as fundamentally anti-semitic, in order to paint their opposition as evil and unworthy of support. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukraine-your-predictions/681948/78 "2014-02-23T17:13:56Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > What they believe in and worship is not my business but they are people of the book and we all know much about their long history from their own book and prophets and our book tells us to protect them **as long as they are not plotting or fighting against us**. You are quite a funny man, **Marmite Lover**. Bolded part in your quote mine, when aren’t the Jews plotting against you? Didn’t Egyptian state TV run a [41 part TV series](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/2409591.stm) based upon the _Protocols of the Elders of Zion_? Like I said, Obama is a secret Muslim and has members of the Muslim Brotherhood in his cabinet out of one side of your mouth and US foreign policy is dictated by the Zionist entity out of the other. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukraine-your-predictions/681948/79 "2014-02-23T20:19:52Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > The Pravy Sektor fascist far right group released a statement and called for ARMED national revolution STARTING TODAY!! > > “For us, Europe is not the issue, in fact joining with Europe would be the death of Ukraine. Europe means the death of the nation state and the death of Christianity. We want a Ukraine for Ukrainians, run by Ukrainians, and not serving the interests of others.” > > Obama and Co > > I hope that your MSM is showing you this on your TV screen this morning before you head out to the golf course!! OoooooooooooooK. Since the fascists are against the choice of Ukraine’s new interim president that pledged to put the country back on course for European integration, it is becoming clear that almost no one is paying attention to the fascists. Glad we could figure that out. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukraine-your-predictions/681948/80 "2014-02-23T22:17:22Z")
Morbid curiosity spurs me to ask the OP how it is that the US is to blame for what’s going on in the Ukraine and how we are the ones supposedly bringing in the Muslim hordes to…well to…er, to do what we apparently did in Egypt and Syria. Or something. Mind, based on past OPs by ML I’m not exactly sanguine about the answer, but I just have to ask. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukraine-your-predictions/681948.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ukraine-your-predictions/681948.md?page=5)