# UK's worst serial killer confirmed: 215 dead **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 19, 2002, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776 "2002-07-19T09:41:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776/1 "2002-07-19T09:41:14Z")
[Good grief.](http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_632367.html?menu=news.latestheadlines) An independent inquiry has found that Harold Shipman, a doctor who preyed on the elderly and infirm, killed at least 215 people between 1975 and 1992. The judge heading the inquiry has also speculated that the real total could be as high as 298, but that there is insufficient evidence to confirm that figure. ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776/2 "2002-07-19T09:55:09Z")
[nitpick]He’s not a serial killer, just a mass murder. [/nitpick] Don’t know why the media keep insisting on calling him that. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776/3 "2002-07-19T09:58:11Z")
What’s the difference between a mass murderer and a serial killer, then? He killed lots of people, individually, and serially, and not for financial gain. There was a shrink on TV this morning saying he got some kind of ‘autoerotic response’ from the killing, too. ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776/4 "2002-07-19T09:58:28Z")
What’s the difference? ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776/5 "2002-07-19T09:58:57Z")
OF course, thats a matter of definition. ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776/6 "2002-07-19T10:00:28Z")
Yes, and your definitions are? ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776/7 "2002-07-19T10:04:46Z")
Most experts believe that in order to qualify as a serial killer, they must have killed at least three times and the victims must be **unrelated** in their place in the killer’s life. -The official FBI definition for serial homicide is: \*"Three or more separate events with an emotional cooling off period between homicides, each murder taking place at a different location. \* Also, Serial killers are usually (more than 80%) white, male, in their twenties to early thirties, and kill within their own gender, etnicity and race. ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776/8 "2002-07-19T10:07:17Z")
Shipman would more or less fit the FBI’s definition, then. I really don’t see anything that would indicate the media are wrong to use that label. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776/9 "2002-07-19T10:08:13Z")
Give us a cite for the “unrelated” part and I’ll believe you. ---
**Author:** ![Francesca](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9fc348/32.png) [@Francesca](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francesca)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776/10 "2002-07-19T10:10:47Z")
Well, I think Shipman clearly fits into the FBI definition of a serial killer. But no matter. It’s just semantics after all. 215 dead though. Wow. Wonder what he thought about at nights. It’s astonishing he got away with it for so long - our faith in doctors is sometimes frightening. ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776/11 "2002-07-19T10:16:31Z")
Ok, further reading of other definitions makes me retract my somewhat rash, initial response. Can you just forget all my posts in this thread to date? 😃 I guess Shipman fits many peoples current definitions, so its not quite clear cut. I have read lots of books before on this and the definition _used_ to be solid, but the edges seem blurred now, looking at a few sites. Sorry. Retraction complete… ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776/12 "2002-07-19T10:21:08Z")
For \*\* jjimm,\*\* Original unrelated [cite](http://www.autobahn.mb.ca/~mustards/glossary.html) (at bottom, 10 lines above “red flag” link) ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776/13 "2002-07-19T10:43:06Z")
No worries **Aro**. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776/14 "2002-07-19T10:53:38Z")
**Aro** , from that link, he exhibits elements of both really. Not entirely categorisable, though I’d say he falls more into the ‘serial killing’ definition. Whatever, he is a cruel and unusual man, with a clear God complex. He’s also the second most prolific serial killer ever (if that is indeed what he is). ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776/15 "2002-07-19T10:56:50Z")
Whos first? ---
**Author:** ![Hemlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Hemlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hemlock)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776/16 "2002-07-19T10:58:01Z")
Serial or Mass, one simple question… WHY??? What did he get out of it? What drove him? ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776/17 "2002-07-19T10:58:17Z")
He still denies all of it as well. May he rot in whatever cell he ends up in. ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776/18 "2002-07-19T11:01:08Z")
Ok, got it. Pedro Lopez. [KILLER COUNTDOWN](http://www.escapee.fsnet.co.uk/frighteners/killers.htm) lists a few others in the 200’s though. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776/19 "2002-07-19T11:11:25Z")
A thread I started a while ago about this has links about other high # killers [The No.1 Serial Killer is a doctor](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53956&highlight=Serial+Killer) ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776/20 "2002-07-19T11:17:32Z")
According to [this site](http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/streiber/273/inf_toptweny.htm), it was/is Pedro Lopez of Columbia, at around 300. ☹ [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776.md?page=2)