# UK's worst serial killer confirmed: 215 dead **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 19, 2002, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776 "2002-07-19T09:41:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![wayward](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a87d85/32.png) [@wayward](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wayward)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776/41 "2002-07-21T16:30:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by OpalCat \* > \*\*Is there any remote chance that he thought he was doing the right thing (like Kevorkian?) > > \*\* Nope. I thought that at first too but apparently a large proportion of the victims were perfectly healthy. _Elderly_, but healthy. I say that, but the youngest was something like 42 and he _was_ close to death from cancer so it’s hard to generalise. [Here’s](http://www.the-shipman-inquiry.org.uk) the enquiry on-line by the way. ---
**Author:** ![Tir\_Tinuviel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@Tir\_Tinuviel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tir_Tinuviel)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776/42 "2002-07-21T22:15:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pldennison \* > \*\*David Berkowitz, the “Son of Sam” killer, also didn’t have any particular sexual element to his killings, aside from apparently targeting young women with long, brown hair. \*\* You know he’s up for parole in June 2004. [Now, he said, he has no desire to hurt anyone.](http://www.courttv.com/news/2002/0712/sam_ap.html) ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2002, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776/43 "2002-07-22T01:29:31Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Tir Tinuviel_ **I’m trying to think of some fairly prolific serial killers that didn’t include sex in their MO, but I can’t think of any at the moment, I’ll get back to ya.** > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ranchoth \*\*\*The only one I can think of is the “Zodiac” killer. But I don’t know how “Prolific” he’s considered. \*\* > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by pldennison_ **David Berkowitz, the “Son of Sam” killer, also didn’t have any particular sexual element to his killings** I must disagree. Just because a murder doesn’t involve what _we_ consider sexual activity doesn’t mean that is not a strong sexual element for the killer. There are statements given in confessions, interviews, and diaries that indicate that the act of killing _is_ the sexual release. Some have stated that they would experience climax during the stabbing or shooting. A 19th century lady poisoner described her feelings in swooning romance novel terms. Even the Zodiac (and may whoever he was be rotting in hell as we speak) wrote that killing was “better than getting your rocks off with a girl” in a communication thought to be authentic. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2002, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776/44 "2002-07-22T04:25:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zyada \* > **Think about the koolaid guy and how much power he realized he had over his people - was that his plan all along, or did he just realize one day that he could kill all of them and just did it?** Who is the Kool-Aid guy? What did he do with the Kool-Aid? ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2002, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776/45 "2002-07-22T05:51:35Z")
Jim Jones, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2002, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776/46 "2002-07-22T05:57:29Z")
The Jonestown folks used Flavor-Aid (don’t know why I remember that detail, but I do). ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2002, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776/47 "2002-07-22T07:16:21Z")
Jeez, Jones decided to make everyone kill themselves, and he wouldn’t even spring for non-generic Kool-Aid? THAT’S cold. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2002, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776/48 "2002-07-22T07:32:23Z")
Flavor-Aid is not a generic, it’s a competing brand name. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2002, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776/49 "2002-07-22T09:42:43Z")
Don’t forget Lenny Murphy and the Shankhill Butchers. Nothing remotely sexual about how he ritually kidnapped catholics and carved them up with a meat cleaver. ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2002, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776/50 "2002-07-22T09:43:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by OpalCat \* > \*\*Is there any remote chance that he thought he was doing the right thing (like Kevorkian?) > > \*\* Maybe. Just maybe. He has offered no explaination or defence for his actions, so it’s all guesswork. However one thing that we do know is that his beloved mother died of cancer and the only relief she had was when the doctor injected her with heroin. There is an obvious link there. On the other hand, he killed people simply because they annoyed him. For what it’s worth I think he’s bad not mad ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2002, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776/51 "2002-07-22T09:58:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TwistofFate \* > \*\*Don’t forget Lenny Murphy and the Shankhill Butchers. Nothing remotely sexual about how he ritually kidnapped catholics and carved them up with a meat cleaver. \*\* Twisty, Do you think Murphy et al. would be classed as serial killers, or just as murderous thugs? (Sorry for the hi-jack) Can they be serial killers if they work in a group? ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2002, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776/52 "2002-07-22T13:58:19Z")
According to the book I read about them, they fit into the criteria for serial killers. ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2002, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776/53 "2002-07-22T14:08:15Z")
Martin Dillon’s “Shankill Butchers” per chance? Or what book was it? Don’t know of any other groups of killers who have been classed in that way. Ceratinly doesn’t match the ‘standard’ profile of SK’s. Especailly when their primary motive was purely to kill, so no MO. Just my HO, of course. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2002, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776/54 "2002-07-22T14:22:44Z")
The very one. On the front cover of the edition I read it calls him the most prolific serial killer in British Legal history. ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2002, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776/55 "2002-07-22T14:50:40Z")
Until now, I guess. I don’t recall him ever killing alone though. Just like the standard bully, he needed his ‘mates’ (and their taxi) with him to carry out those acts. And sympathetic pub owners too. Seems more like group murder than individual. Strange he was given the ‘credit’ for the kills especially as that was all he seemed to look for in his life - power & ‘respect’ in that community. Have to say though, I have read all of Dillon’s books, and that is the only one which he seems less than objective in his analysis of the events. It was always as if he had decided before starting that Murphy was a murdering thug, and that premise carried the book. Of ourse, he was, but it wasn’t the best piece of objective journalism / social commentary I have ever read. Fell more into the “Jack the Ripper’s victims” catagory of crime books. ---
**Author:** ![Banger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@Banger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banger)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2002, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776/56 "2002-07-22T17:37:47Z")
When I first saw the reference “Kool-Aid” guy, I had this image of the Koo-Aid guy bursting through a kitchen wall, saying “Oh Yeah!” and then beating the crap out of everyone in the room. Technically, if this guy killed so many people, wouldn’t that make him the _best_ serial killer ever? I would think the worst serial killer ever would be someone who does something like accidentally killing himself while unsuccessfully attacking his first victim. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uks-worst-serial-killer-confirmed-215-dead/119776.md?page=2)