UK's worst serial killer confirmed: 215 dead

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
21

The staggering thing about this is that owing to the nature of hiss killing methods (overdoses of opiates), only the cases that show clear evidence for opiate poisoning with no other possible route of ingestion can be included.

Thus anyone who could legitimately have opiates in their blood would not be conclusively counted (I assume that the 38 “uncertains” fall into this category)

As to why? The only obvious link is that his beloved mother died an excruciating death, only palliated by injections of morphine from the family doctor.

He has shown absolutely no remorse and offered no explaination.

And given that he was nearly struck off for prescription fraud involving Pethadine (synthetic opiate) alarm bells should certainly have rung earlier.

However GP is the perfect cover for a killer.
The bastard.

22

What I’m interested in, also, is his grounds for denial. How is he denying it? Is he just sticking his fingers in his ears and saying “LA LA LA I DIDN’T DO IT LA LA LA”?

23

More or less.

The first thing to understand is that as we don’t have the death penalty there is only one possible sentence for murder - life, so there is no point in pleading guilty to get a lower sentence.

Secondly he maintains that he is a good, contientious doctor, or at least has up to now.

He has no prospect of release.

24

Well, the view of Dame Janet Smith is that Shipman intentionally signposted his predilection by very obviously falsifying the Will of his last victim (to make him the beneficiary).

We’re obviously not going to understand his mental process but it seems that, towards the end, he did want to be caught while still continuing with the killing.

I suppose the truly scary thing is that such is the public’s trust of Doctors that, without Shipman effectively turning himself in, he might still be practicing.

25

Did anyone seee the ITV drama-doc on him? James Bolam was spookily close in appearance. It didn’t attempt to give a motive but did show that several people had tried to blow the whistle (other doctors and undertakers mainly) to no avail.

GPs are effectively a law unto themselves (they are self employed) unless someone makes and wins a case against them here is no effective oversight or peer review.

THis is a legacy from our pre NHS days and is jelously guarded by GPs.

Other comments from Dame Janet [note to mods, this is from the Governments press release, is public domain and not copyright]

Harold Shipman may have been “addicted to killing”, according to the judge investigating his past.
Commenting on what prompted Shipman’s 23-year murder spree, Dame Janet said there was evidence that he had been addicted to the painkiller pethidine in the 1970s.

“I think it is likely that whatever it was that caused Shipman to become addicted to pethidine also led to other forms of addictive behaviour,” she said. “It is possible that he was addicted to killing.”

She said that, “deeply shocking though it is”, the bare statement that Shipman had killed over 200 of his patients “does not fully reflect the enormity of his crimes”.

As a GP, Shipman was trusted implicitly by patients and their families. “He betrayed their trust in a way and to an extent that I believe is unparalleled in history,” said Dame Janet.

She said everyone was accustomed to hearing of violent deaths in the media and in fiction.

"In some ways, Shipman’s ‘non-violent’ killing seems almost more incredible than the violent deaths of which we hear.

"The way in which Shipman could kill, face the relatives, and walk away unsuspected would be dismissed as fanciful if described in a work of fiction.

“Although I have identified 215 victims of Shipman the true number is far greater and cannot be counted. I include the thousands of relatives, friends or neighbours who have lost a loved one or friend before his or her time in circumstances which will leave their mark forever.”

26

I had to state a thought on the difference between serial killers and mass murderers. It seems from the definition that a mass murderer is opportunistic. A person in a situation where he or she realizes that just one small action will kill another person, and decides to do it. Think about the koolaid guy and how much power he realized he had over his people - was that his plan all along, or did he just realize one day that he could kill all of them and just did it?

OTOH, serial killers seems to be predatory - going out of their way to choose a victim, get the victim to the place of murder, then I don’t want to know what else.

27

Serial killers are only one type of mass murderer. Most serial killers are very ritualistic. They choose a certain type of victim and kill them in a particular manner. The victims of serial killers are almost always obvious murder victims; they are not killed by means that could be confused for natural causes such as Shipman’s victims apparently were.

Other types of mass murderers include spree killers who simply start killing as many victims as possible in one event (and often commit suicide as the climax of their crimes) and “nurse” killers who are usually employees in hospitals or nursing homes (as the name indicates, this is one of the few mass murderer archetypes in which women are significantly represented) who seem to gain their satisfaction from their sense of control over the fate of their victims. Shipman seems to be this latter type of murderer.

28

This is mega creepy.

29

Isn’t the differenct that serial killers are Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, Jeffery Dahmer types, while mass murderers are people who kill many people in one fell swoop- like school gunmen and bombers and belltower snipers? That’s how I always understood it.

30

Don’t most serial murders have some sexual element to them, as well?
Ranchoth

31

Crime Library has lots of information on serial killers and mass murderers, including some interesting articles into what make 'em tick.
Worth a look.
:slight_smile:

32

Yes, a lot of them do, most notable cases are Ed Gein, Jeffery Dahmer, Dennis Neilson and Henry Lee Lucas, and the already mentioned Pedro Lopez.

Part of the theory on Serial Killers is that they feel impotent in normal society, the killing and pre/post death sexual acts are a way of exerting control and dominace over another human. Also a lot of Serial Killers have had trouble relating to others on a normal social level, death kinda removes this barrier, and is quite often given the sweet little nickname “Killing for Company”.
I’m trying to think of some fairly prolific serial killers that didn’t include sex in their MO, but I can’t think of any at the moment, I’ll get back to ya. :wink:

33

Yes, ‘kills them all at once’ is the definition of a mass murderer, and that would fit anyone from the boys from Columbine to Andrea Yates.

Should serial poisoners, a definition I guess we can loosely apply to Shipman, be considered serial killers? Well, several have described their reactions in absolutely sexual terms- like Bundy, they got off primarily on their ability to kill, even if their victims were unaware that they were being poisoned, or by whom. It was a power trip.

34

Serial Killers VS Mass Killers VS Spree Killers

35

The only one I can think of is the “Zodiac” killer. But I don’t know how “Prolific” he’s considered.

36

Extremely prolific, Ranchoth. At least seven victims and perhaps as many as ten or more.

David Berkowitz, the “Son of Sam” killer, also didn’t have any particular sexual element to his killings, aside from apparently targeting young women with long, brown hair.

37

From that site (thanks for the link):

Serial Killer - A serial killer is a typical white male, 20-30…
Mass Killer - A mass killer is a a very angry and frustrated white male, 25-40…
A Spree Killer is usually a white male 20-30…

Damn guys, chill out!

38

Is there any remote chance that he thought he was doing the right thing (like Kevorkian?)

I’m not at all familiar with the case, so this might be totally out of the

39

I hate it when that happens.

…question, but that is why I’m asking.

40

Whether he thought it was “right” or not isn’t relevent. Kevorkian had the express permission from his clients to assist them in committing suicide. His clients sought him out so he would help them die.

That’s very different than injecting someone who thinks you’re helping them be well again.