Ultimate Fate of Cryogenics Movement

It will vanish when humanity does. In the meantime it will continue to draw in those with a lot of money, a strong fear of death/oblivion and an unfounded trust in scientific breakthroughs for thawing frozen humans into anything other than mush.

Just another voice echoing the sentiment: every last person frozen on the chance they can be revived will end up a pile of wet gooey flesh with frost burn (well, not exactly that).

Here’s an interesting, sort-of-off-topic article about bionic eye tech created by a company that ultimately went under.

People in cryogenic freeze are like these bionic eyes . . . completely dependent upon the organizational and financial solvency of the private institutions they’ve entrusted themselves to. Even if there’s some distant future in which the tech is there to thaw frozen people back to life, what are the odds that you picked a freeze-o-matic company that’s actually still going to be around keeping your body in tip-top shape at that point?

Apropos:

The physical configuration of the synapses may be preserved, but that’s useless when all the subtle chemical information around and between the cells is lost.

If you pump a brain full of cryoprotectants (like antifreeze) and cool it with liquid nitrogen, those “thousands of proteins and specialized lipid structures”, varying greatly on a cellular scale, are irretrievably destroyed.

In principle, technologies may be developed in future for preserving that information, through it would need different methods for different cells and different areas of the brain – but with the current methods being used, that information is simply destroyed. That information does not exist anymore, and no technology can get back what doesn’t exist.

The brain’s metabolic processes are now history. It’s off the twig. It’s kicked the bucket. It’s shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain, and joined the bleeding choir invisible. This is an ex-brain! :slightly_smiling_face:

There are some rational people that think we may be able to fully map consciousness one day. The improvements to brain scanning are allowing us to get more and more detailed scans, and computing power is becoming more and more powerful. There may be a time in the future when the brain scans are so precise and the computers so powerful that we can map the brain completely enough to replicate it in a computer. However, that would likely only be possible with a living brain. A frozen brain would likely be missing many of the key attributes needed to digitize the person. Even with perfect scanning, it would likely be impossible to restore the consciousness of a person from a frozen brain.

Seems like putting the cart before the horse. Even if it’s possible to perfectly preserve a human body, or head, for an indefinite period of time, you still haven’t “cured death.” Any idiot can put a corpse in the freezer.

As little faith as I have in Science eventually being able to revive a frozen brain, I have even less faith that any of these companies are capable of keeping a corpsicle safe until that happens. There’s a better chance your body would be auctioned off to some 23rd Century eccentric billionaire who wants a 200 year old dead body to keep as a lawn ornament or serve for dinner or have sex with.

Some people don’t believe in souls, and there is the whole nature vs nurture argument [which I am ambivalent about - but I can see both sides of the argument though I lean towards nature rather than nurture other wise my friend Pat should be a child abuser as her father abused she and her siblings for their early lives until at least she got old enough to leave home. And why Ted Bundy, who by all accounts had a good childhood turned into a serial killer …]

If someone cloned me, my soul is not in my DNA, whatever popped out of the womb or whatever would be a human, but it wouldn’t be me.

ROTFLMAO!

I think that would make a great movie - or a halloween episode for one of the CSI shows, maybe whatshis name [red haired sunglasses dude] wakes up from a dream where he and his crew are in the future and that is what happens =)

Meat. They’re made out of meat. Frozen, freezer burned meat. Apologies to Terry Bisson.

They’re Made out of Meat (mit.edu)

Head Museum!

Don’t forget Niven’s ARM stories, where they decided just to just “break up” the corpsicles for their organs.

Fine. Make up whatever “this will never happen” analogy that you want that will survive your nitpicking. But no matter what, the statement “I doubt that it would recreate me” will remain silly because there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that a tissue culture clone will not be you. That isn’t how biology works. Your memories are not stored in tissue samples. A. Clone. Will. Not. Be. You.

Or, as I have put forth many times before, if it were possible to create a clone of yourself from a few cells, and said clone had all of your memories, would you willingly submit to being killed to make room for the new “you”?

Right. Same goes with an “upload”. Why should I care about making something that thinks that it is me when it isn’t me?

I’ve got it.

The year: 2999
The Place: New New York
A bunch of recently-unfrozen bodies are found in a dump.
One of them was MURDERED! A thousand years ago.
The CSIs track the evidence, go through the records, and find the killer.
Who is currently frozen, in a different facility.
As there is no technology (even in 2999) to thaw and reanimate him, they debate the ethics. Is the killer dead enough, or do they have to revive him in order to get justice? Do they flag the person "when you can reanimate him, here is the evidence to convict him of murder. " What if they have the death penalty in that even more distant future?

Gene Wolfe wrote a great story Doctor Of Death Island, about a man who was convicted of murder and sentenced to life. (non spoiler) He dies but has himself frozen. Then they thaw him, cure him, and tell him to prepare to serve the rest of his life sentence. IIRC that’s the first page or so.

I don’t think anyone has argued that it would be. I certainly haven’t. I think it’s possible that a sufficiently advanced scan of brain structure could create an emulated consciousness of the mind that used to inhabit that brain. Maybe it never will be, but I don’t see how we could know for sure from here.

If I was dead already, as cryogenically frozen heads/bodies are? Sure. Fait accompli.

I agree that simulating a frozen brain will likely be more difficult. I don’t think we can reason at all about whether it will be possible or not. We simply don’t have enough information about how the brain works or how precise future scanning technology might be. Going back to my mammoth example, it’s a lot easier to extract DNA from living organisms than frozen mammoth bodies, but the latter may still be possible.

To be clear: I think you are very likely correct. No one who’s head is currently frozen will ever be revived. I’m simply not willing to say it’s 100%, because just as some of today’s technology would be considered totally impossible and absurd in the past, I expect the same will be true of future technology.

The person that I was originally replying to said:

however I would not mind leaving a DNA sample towards the future. I doubt that it would recreate me if they cloned it

I was simply saying that “doubt” should be taken as an understatement, like saying that I doubt that YU Scuti would fit in my pants pocket.

Ultimate Fate of Cryogenics Movement

Probably to be put on ice and revived when it can be revitalized.

I understand now. Thanks for the clarification.