# Ultimate Fighting: Where's Jackie Chan? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 13, 2006, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-fighting-wheres-jackie-chan/348242 "2006-03-13T22:52:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-fighting-wheres-jackie-chan/348242/41 "2006-03-14T23:17:31Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > From what I can read of the linked rules, avoiding him would be a foul, namely “timidity”. Which makes no sense at all to me; in any real fight you can be damned certain that any decent fighter would be attempting to avoid contact with the opponent, except on one’s own terms. And it’s not like “timidity” makes the sport more dangerous, as would, say, eye gouges. Timidity has to rise to more than just avoiding the opponent’s strikes and takedowns, and is more on the level of refusing to fight altogether. A good fighter wanting to tire an overly aggressive opponent can stick and move, keep him back with push kicks, sprawl and do takedown defense, and a lot of other stuff short of just running around in circles. That’s a good strategy with Abbott – he comes out like a hurricane, tires out quickly, and then is vulnerable to submissions. > [@Chronos](#): > > As for genuine fighting, as opposed to any sort of sport, not only will there be surprise attacks, sucker punches, and double-teaming, there’s also very likely to be weapons, ranging from the bar stools, empty bottles, and other improvised clubs, to knives, to submachine guns. And while there are fighting styles both for using and opposing such techniques more effectively, they’re very different, in general, from the techniques used by unarmed humans 1 on 1. Put scrawny, nerdy me in a fight with “Tank” Abbot, and I’ll win, if I’m _in_ a tank. JKD instructor Paul Vunak’s first rule of unarmed combat is “get armed.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-fighting-wheres-jackie-chan/348242/42 "2006-03-14T23:36:27Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > JKD instructor Paul Vunak’s first rule of unarmed combat is “get armed.” 🙂 Actually, make that JKD instructor Brad Garrison. Credit where credit’s due, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-fighting-wheres-jackie-chan/348242/43 "2006-03-15T01:43:00Z")
> [@sweeteviljesus](#): > > I wonder how a military-trained person would fair in UFC. UFC 15 had “The Smashing Machine” Mark Kerr (in his prime) against a US Army Ranger named Greg Stott, who was evidently a badass in Ranger school and unarmed combat contests. The fight lasted 17 seconds - Stott charged in with his head down, Kerr threw an upward knee strike and Stott dropped like a sack of bricks. Thud. At the time Kerr was a monster to look at, bodybuilder and wrestler (and later he got tripped up abusing drugs). There’s a documentary about him which I’ve seen some of. I don’t think that the military can spend too much time training unarmed combat - sure you have to do a bunch and you have to be able to defeat people in melee combat, but they must focus primarily on shooting your enemy - fists and knives are a last resort. ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-fighting-wheres-jackie-chan/348242/44 "2006-03-15T01:48:57Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Cite that any of the successful UFC fighters are using either steroids or HGH? Cite that there is any widespread use of either of these substances among any UFC fighters, successful or otherwise? Tim Silvia got nailed using steroids. He’s back and I think that he’s clean now (read an interview with him a few months ago where he talks about what happened, he claims it was just to get a ripped “six pack” stomach but judge for yourself). The Mark Kerr documentary shows him using drugs but I don’t recall what exactly. When you look at his earlier fights it’s difficult to believe he looked that way totally naturally. Now that MMA is being governed by state athletic commissions (at least in the US - Nevada and California for example) I think that there will be closer oversight of steroid abuse. ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-fighting-wheres-jackie-chan/348242/45 "2006-03-15T02:01:38Z")
> [@archmichael](#): > > You have a guy like Yoshida (who choked out Abbott by the way) who still fights in a gi. Common sense dictates that you don’t fight in a gi, because it makes it easier for your opponent to choke you out. Not only does he manage to not get choked, but he uses it to get choke holds. > > You have Mirko Filipovic who **used to** knock people out with high head kicks. Again common sense dictates that you don’t attempt these moves becaue they leave you too vulnerable. Royce Gracie said that the reason he wore a gi in the UFC was that it encouraged people to grab him, and once they did that “it’s my game”. To someone who’s trained in it, a gi is a powerful offensive weapon. FWIW, Cung Le put on a pretty impressive display of offensive kicks in his MMA debut last Friday at Strikeforce down in San Jose. He nailed his opponent with a series of kicks, including several high kicks to the head, then finished him with a spinning back kick to the chest and a quick punch. I’m not convinced as to the quality of the fellow he beat though, I’d like to see Cung Le fling those kicks against somebody with a proven track record. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-fighting-wheres-jackie-chan/348242/46 "2006-03-15T02:39:31Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Cite that any of the successful UFC fighters are using either steroids or HGH? Cite that there is any widespread use of either of these substances among any UFC fighters, successful or otherwise? **Otto** , I feel like I’m missing some joke by actually responding to this. Maybe I read more of the ‘fitness’ and ‘muscle’ …ahem “literature”. Here is a link to a story that actually made some headlines. > **[Las Vegas News | Breaking News & Headlines | Las Vegas Review-Journal](https://www.reviewjournal.com)** > > The Las Vegas Review-Journal is Nevada's most trusted source for local news, Las Vegas sports, business news, gaming news, entertainment news and more. I’ve mentioned this before in other threads, but I have spent time training body builders, powerlifters and some folks who have championed the Muay Thai movement, and some who have moved onto UFC-type events. The percentage of those caught is fairly low, as testing is not all inclusive; competitors time their 'roid cycles, and masking techniques are cat and mouse games with the docs…along with new designer roids that don’t pop up in all tests. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-fighting-wheres-jackie-chan/348242/47 "2006-03-15T03:00:04Z")
> [@Philster](#): > > **Otto** , I feel like I’m missing some joke by actually responding to this. Maybe I read more of the ‘fitness’ and ‘muscle’ …ahem “literature”. No, I wasn’t making a joke. I am a relatively new fan of any of the ultimate fighting and I know virtually nothing about its history. I do know that it’s sanctioned by a number of state athletic commissions, as **Valgard** noted, and my impression was that those sanctioning bodies are fairly stringent about drug testing, but again my knowledge base is pretty close to zero. I also didn’t know about your training background, and your post read to me kind of like you were throwing out the drug thing as a one-liner. ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-fighting-wheres-jackie-chan/348242/48 "2006-03-15T03:04:38Z")
[Here’s](http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4202233125352645948&q=knockout+kick) Cro Cop back when he used to knock people out with high kicks. And [here’s](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLQxNlyru2o&search=sylvia%20knockout) a very memorable head kick from Tim Sylvia when he fought Tra Telligman. Poor guy went out on a backboard. It happens, but is only effectively used by the guys that can afford to be taken to the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Kid\_A\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Kid\_A\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kid_A_1)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-fighting-wheres-jackie-chan/348242/49 "2006-03-15T03:17:19Z")
Gilbert Yvel knocking out Gary Goodridge with a high kick. [Link](http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5836653822582302960&q=gilbert+yvel) One of the first MMA fights I ever saw. ---
**Author:** ![fighting\_ignorant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ac8455/32.png) [@fighting\_ignorant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fighting_ignorant)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-fighting-wheres-jackie-chan/348242/50 "2006-03-15T03:41:38Z")
> [@Valgard](#): > > Royce Gracie said that the reason he wore a gi in the UFC What’s a “gi” ? ---
**Author:** ![ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c77e96/32.png) [@ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ed)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-fighting-wheres-jackie-chan/348242/51 "2006-03-15T03:59:14Z")
> [@fighting ignorant](#): > > What’s a “gi” ? Shortened term for _keikogi_, which is Japanese for “practice clothes” more or less. Usually it means the (usually) white pyjama looking things karate practitioners wear, although in other arts like aikido and kendo the keikogis may be indigo dyed. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-fighting-wheres-jackie-chan/348242/52 "2006-03-15T03:59:46Z")
A [gi](http://www.usmaf.org/graphics/clipart/gi.gif) is the outfit. ---
**Author:** ![Kid\_A\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Kid\_A\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kid_A_1)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-fighting-wheres-jackie-chan/348242/53 "2006-03-15T04:00:32Z")
Gi is short for _Keikogi_ which is a Japanese word for “uniform for training”. There are different gis for different martial arts. Royce Gracie, as a jiu jitsu fighter, would prefer to wear his gi since it is something that he is comfortable wearing in a fight. [Royce in Action](http://www.kombatarts.com/Classes/BJJ/royce.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-fighting-wheres-jackie-chan/348242/54 "2006-03-15T04:26:10Z")
> [@fighting ignorant](#): > > What’s a “gi” ? What everybody else said 🙂 Generically it’s the practice uniform that is worn for many styles of martial arts, however the judogi (used in judo and jiujitsu) is constructed differently than the gi used in styles that don’t focus on grappling and throwing as much (such as karate or goshinjitsu). The judogi is built to stand up to constant grabbing, yanking, twisting, being used to throw a person and the considerable wear and tear of rolling around on the ground with other participants. The cloth is much heavier and stronger than in other uniforms and the collar of the jacket (which if you imagine a regular jacket runs up both sides where the zipper is and all the way around the collar) is very heavy - almost a belt. A lot of techniques in judo and jiujitsu use the gi as a weapon - it’s much harder for an opponent to slip out of a rear naked choke, for example, when the chokers arms have fabric on them instead of bare (and sweaty) skin. Another example is what is called the “Ezekiel” choke in Brazilian jiujitsu which you grip your own sleeves to apply - here’s some pictures: [http://www.bjj.org/techniques/bjjfighter/gi/guard/eziquiel/](http://www.bjj.org/techniques/bjjfighter/gi/guard/eziquiel/) ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-fighting-wheres-jackie-chan/348242/55 "2006-03-15T04:42:51Z")
GSP hit world champ Matt Hughes with a solid spinning kick when they fought. It’s not impossible, even against the best in the world, you just have to be damn good. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-fighting-wheres-jackie-chan/348242/56 "2006-03-15T08:18:52Z")
> [@dnooman](#): > > I was a purple belt in Kempo (yes with an m) ken (sword) kenshi (sword fighter) juuken (sword fighting style) kendo (sword fighting style) kenjutsu (sword method) kengou (master swordsman) shuriken (throwing star) shinken (honest (as a blade)) tanken (short sword) touken (sword) …kempo? You may have been a purple belt in sword fighting, but you’re still a white belt in Japanese. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-fighting-wheres-jackie-chan/348242/57 "2006-03-15T08:30:47Z")
I distinctly remember a K1 fight that featured a high kick. All that happened was that the fighters began moving towards each other, and one of the fighters simply kicked him in the head and knocked him out. The whole fight lasted about 3 seconds, quite hilarious if you ask me. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-fighting-wheres-jackie-chan/348242/58 "2006-03-15T08:53:53Z")
> [@Sage Rat](#): > > …kempo? You may have been a purple belt in sword fighting, but you’re still a white belt in Japanese. Nah… he’s just using unmodified Hepburn romanization. A little outdated, sure, but not “wrong.” ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-fighting-wheres-jackie-chan/348242/59 "2006-03-15T09:26:04Z")
> [@Carnac the Magnificent!](#): > > Something incongruous about seeing the word “whilst” mixed in with ripped-out tracheas and tooth-severed spines. Well, as long as we’re fighting like Cro-Magnons, we may as well fight like _grammatically correct_ Cro-Magnons. 😃 'Course, most school fights consisted of a couple of guys swinging wildly at each other from four feet apart while the chorus of grunts watching bellowed “In-the-balls! In-the-balls!”. Happy days… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![matt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@matt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-fighting-wheres-jackie-chan/348242/60 "2006-03-15T09:29:34Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I distinctly remember a K1 fight that featured a high kick. All that happened was that the fighters began moving towards each other, and one of the fighters simply kicked him in the head and knocked him out. The whole fight lasted about 3 seconds, quite hilarious if you ask me. Martial artist, bouncer and self-defense expert [Geoff Thompson](http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1840242795/qid=1142414390/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_3_1/026-5651698-0294859) has written that high kicks and complicated kicks are generally useless, _except for world class kickers_. He described a friend of his who defied conventional wisdom by being able to high kick effectively in street fights, in restricted spaces, etc. But he was never able to do it himself, and he emphasised that it wasn’t just a matter of training - some exceptional people just have enough of a natural speed and flexibility advantage to make high kicks work for them. > [@matt's old TKD instructor](#): > > You’re not going to use a reverse turning kick in a chip shop [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-fighting-wheres-jackie-chan/348242.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-fighting-wheres-jackie-chan/348242.md?page=4)