# Ultimate Parachute Mishap **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 24, 2006, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-parachute-mishap/385489 "2006-12-24T22:33:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-parachute-mishap/385489/1 "2006-12-24T22:33:35Z")
I was perusing this website; > **[The Free Fall Research Page, sponsored by Green Harbor Publications](http://www.greenharbor.com/fffolder/ffresearch.html)** > > Green Harbor Publications is the sponsor of The Free Fall Research Page which documents well-known sport and wartime military parachuting and free-fall mishaps and accidents. Simply put, it is possible to survive a fall from altitude w/out injury, though not very likely (though I’m sure you knew that already) There is one incident not mentioned on the site - that seems to be a bit of an urban legend, though several archived usenet/google posters swear it really happened, was mentioned on CNN, or “I was there” etc. It goes something like this: A cameraman was filming numerous group jumps repeatedly throughout a busy day. At one point after a break or lunch or whatever, he gets back on the plane _but forgets his parachute_ because of intense interest in film, camera, angles, etc. Nobody notices, he was first on the plane and has his back to the wall. Any longtime photographers can probably attest to a bit of absentmindedness. Supposedly this unfortunate soul plunged to his death, but is this an urban legend? ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-parachute-mishap/385489/2 "2006-12-24T22:52:13Z")
I got nothin’, but I do have a great parachute story about an Italian Air Force pilot in the late 1920s who was asked to test an experimental parachute, and protested to his CO that it probably wouldn’t open. He then took off and tested it anyway. It didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-parachute-mishap/385489/3 "2006-12-24T23:51:34Z")
[QUOTE=Common Tater] Supposedly this unfortunate soul plunged to his death, but is this an urban legend? [/QUOTE] I’ve seen footage on several of those “reality” type shows that claims to be exactly this. It’s always the exact same clip, for what that’s worth. The clip starts with the camera man inside the plane, filming the other guys as they jump out the door. Then the camera man jumps out the door, and you get a bit of the typical footage of some skydiving acrobatics. The announcer then usually says something to the effect of the fact that everyone starts to realize the camera guy doesn’t have his chute on, and they keep trying to get close to grab him but he thinks they are screwing up the acrobatics and keeps moving away. Then the other guys pull their chutes (so that they don’t go splat too, presumably) and you get a bit of footage of the camera guy looking all around. The announcer says at that point he finally realized he didn’t have his chute on, and the clip ends. To my untrained eye, I can’t tell if the other guys really are trying to get close to him and grab him at any point in the clip or not, and you don’t get to see the ground rushing up at the guy or anything, so I can’t say for certain that it’s real footage. All I can say is that on several TV shows it has been presented as such. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-parachute-mishap/385489/4 "2006-12-25T00:44:03Z")
I recall this clip from when it was new (I think) at the end you see the camera look down toward his chest as he realizes that he doesn’t have a D-ring to grab. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-parachute-mishap/385489/5 "2006-12-25T01:13:45Z")
[QUOTE=Rick] I recall this clip from when it was new (I think) at the end you see the camera look down toward his chest as he realizes that he doesn’t have a D-ring to grab. [/QUOTE] …and he looked down _with the camera_ because…? ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-parachute-mishap/385489/6 "2006-12-25T01:17:09Z")
[QUOTE=carnivorousplant] …and he looked down _with the camera_ because…? [/QUOTE] I think they are helmet mounted, so anywhere the user looks, the camera follows. Feel really bad if this happened, not only because it sounds like something I could see myself doing. ---
**Author:** ![Anachronism](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@Anachronism](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anachronism)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-parachute-mishap/385489/7 "2006-12-25T01:18:47Z")
[QUOTE=carnivorousplant] …and he looked down _with the camera_ because…? [/QUOTE] The camera is usualy attached to the helmet, it looks where the cameraman looks. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-parachute-mishap/385489/8 "2006-12-25T01:59:49Z")
[QUOTE=Common Tater] I think they are helmet mounted, [/QUOTE] So much for my vote of “urban legend.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-parachute-mishap/385489/9 "2006-12-25T02:47:47Z")
[QUOTE=carnivorousplant] …and he looked down _with the camera_ because…? [/QUOTE] He reached for the D-ring by feel, and when he could not locate it, he looked down at his chest. The camera being helmet mounted, followed his line of sight. At the point where he realized that there was no D-ring, the camera moved around lot,\* I would say that he panicked. They cut the film off just after that, so you did not see the impact. \*You could imagine him thinking “Huh that’s odd, I don’t feel the D-ring, guess I will have to eyeball it. I don’t see it. HOLY FUCK I FORGOT TO PUT ON MY CHUTE.” ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-parachute-mishap/385489/10 "2006-12-25T02:47:54Z")
I’ll try and find the name for you but yes, this did really happen. I helped run a skydiving club in college (mid 1990s) and some of my friends watched the tape in question, I read a few accounts of it in various skydiving magazines. IIRC the cameraman in question was just going up to film exits (rather than jumping himself) and thus wasn’t wearing his gear. On one jump run he actually got into position as if he was going to exit before somebody pointed out that he’d be jumping to a hasty conclusion (sorry). Later that day he went up, did the same thing and this time nobody noticed until it was too late. If you think it would be impossible for any rational person to get into a jump plane sans parachute I have seen it happen firsthand. A friend of mine was a jumpmaster and on one very busy day he took a load of students up only to land a few minutes later, run out of the plane, get his gear and then go back up. He was a bit shaken up afterwards. The first-jump students didn’t catch on to what had happened. And yes the cameras are helmet-mounted. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-parachute-mishap/385489/11 "2006-12-25T03:32:59Z")
I did a bit of googling a couple years ago and iirc did find a name and yet another archived link to a newspaper account of someone with a similar name killed in a skydiving incident, but it didn’t mention the details, and I didn’t pan anything more out than that. I suppose snopes would list this as “undetermined”, though I’ve read at least one account who “remembered seeing it on CNN”. It certainly sounds plausible enough, but then most UL’s often have at least the germ of that. ---
**Author:** ![Omar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f0a364/32.png) [@Omar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-parachute-mishap/385489/12 "2006-12-25T09:16:41Z")
Here is a link where a usergroup discusses whether it is an urban legend or not. It is not a cite, but names and locations are mentioned. [http://groups.google.com/group/alt.folklore.urban/browse\_thread/thread/5a67303befde85c1/d4a66dea65ff6c40?lnk=st&q](http://groups.google.com/group/alt.folklore.urban/browse_thread/thread/5a67303befde85c1/d4a66dea65ff6c40?lnk=st&q) ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-parachute-mishap/385489/13 "2006-12-25T12:01:35Z")
[QUOTE=Omar] Here is a link where a usergroup discusses whether it is an urban legend or not. It is not a cite, but names and locations are mentioned. [http://groups.google.com/group/alt.folklore.urban/browse\_thread/thread/5a67303befde85c1/d4a66dea65ff6c40?lnk=st&q](http://groups.google.com/group/alt.folklore.urban/browse_thread/thread/5a67303befde85c1/d4a66dea65ff6c40?lnk=st&q) [/QUOTE] Interesting, I couldn’t for some reason pull that thread up when I searched “Forgot Parachute” and other similar phrases. I like one phrase in that thread “It could be an UL, but it actually happened.” Still trying to wrap my brain around that one. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-parachute-mishap/385489/14 "2006-12-25T13:51:52Z")
From **Omar** ’s link > [@A story from the Associated Press](#): > > Quoted here from the Greensboro > [NC] News and Record, April 6, 1988; p. C3: > > PARACHUTIST’S DEATH RULED ACCIDENTAL > > LOUISBURG (AP) - The death of an experienced parachutist who fell > 10,500 feet without a parachute while he was filming another jump was > accidental, Franklin County investigators said Tuesday. > “We have gathered enough information to declare it an > accident,” Sheriff Arthur Johnson said. > Ivan Lester McGuire, 35, of Durham died Saturday after jumping from an > airplane without a parachute, said Captain Ralph Brown of the > Sheriff’s Department. McGuire had made more than 800 jumps. > McGuire, who was carrying a video camera mounted on his > helmet, was filming a student and an instructor at Franklin County > Sports Parachute Center when he jumped from the plane piloted by Mark > Luman of Louisburg. Luman couldn’t be found for comment and had no > telephone listing, but Brown said the pilot “wasn’t in any position to > see what happened in the back of the plane.” > There was no answer at the parachute center. But Nancy Fayard was > quoted Tuesday in the News and Observer of Raleigh [NC] as saying: “No > one was aware that he got on the plane without a parachute. Of course > no one knew or they would have stopped him.” > Brown said that there was no foul play and no indication that suicide > was involved. But, he added, “A man who has jumped 800 times ought to > remember his parachute.” > McGuire’s body was found in woods about 1 1/2 miles from the airfield. > The videotape showed McGuire jumping from the airplane and that the > jump was going smoothly until the parachutes worn by the instructor > and the student opened and McGuire hurtled below them. > " It kind of appears he reached for his parachute and he didn’t have > one." Brown said. "You could see the instructor and the student > falling on the video. But the release for his parachute is on the > right hip, and when the right hand goes down, the left hand comes > forward and it comes into camera view. > “Then the pictures get to moving real fast because he’s approaching > the ground at 150 mph. The only thing the camera shows is the ground > coming.” > Brown said blood samples will show whether McGuire had alcohol or > drugs in his system and test results should be ready in about a week. > Although an expert jumper, McGuire could have forgotten to put on his > parachute because of fatigue or preoccupation with his video > equipment, said Fayard, wife of club owner Paul Fayard-the instructor > on McGuire’s last jump. > Nancy Fayard said McGuire worked third shift at Northern Telecom Inc., > a manufacturer of telephone switching equipment, and usually left the > club at noon to get to work. On Saturday, she said, he stayed until > 2:30 to shoot the video. > “He’s a real perfectionist when it comes to his video photography, and > he’d been working a lot on it,” she said. “The best we can figure is > he became so preoccupied with the video, and then being fatigued, that > his mind was on the video.” > A Federal Aviation Administration investigator said he was checking to > see if Luman knew whether McGuire was wearing a parachute when he > entered the airplane before the jump. > Walter L. Rigsbee of the district office in Raleigh said FAA rules > require that the pilot check to see that parachutists have on > parachutes. > Johnson said Tuesday the investigation showed the pilot thought > McGuire was wearing a parachute. But Rigsbee said the video equipment > may have been mistaken for a parachute. > “These parachute clubs have safety programs,” Rigsbee said. “They > check these jumpers out depending on their experience.” ---
**Author:** ![Schuyler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/54ee81/32.png) [@Schuyler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schuyler)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-parachute-mishap/385489/15 "2006-12-25T17:33:01Z")
This story is also posted on the [Darwin Awards](http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1994-12.html) site, which is where some people may have come across the story. > [@](#): > > (North Carolina, 1987) Ivan, an experienced parachutist with 800 jumps under his belt, was videotaping a private lesson given by an instructor for a single trainee. He had attached the video camera to his helmet so that it would capture the entire day of instruction, and the supporting power supply and recorder were in a heavy satchel slung on his back. > The group went up in the plane, and the instructor led the enthusiastic beginner through preparations for the jump. Ivan carefully documented the lesson, which needed to be perfect for the sake of posterity, > > When they reached the jump site, Ivan jumped from the back of the plane and filmed the student and instructor jumping from the front of the plane. A few heartbeats later, tape still running, Ivan realized that he had been so focused on filming the jump that he had forgotten to strap on his own parachute. An FAA spokesperson said that the video equipment strapped to his back may have been mistaken for a parachute. > > In the footage salvaged from the camera and spliced together, the student and instructor are shown in freefall befire they pull their ripcords and recede rapidly from view. Then the cameraman’s hands reach for his own ripcord. When Ivan realizes he has no ripcord, ergo no chute, his hands are seen to flail about wildly, then the camera pans down towards the approaching earth… > > Film from the final stage of the plunge was destroyed on impact. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-parachute-mishap/385489/16 "2006-12-25T18:01:42Z")
[QUOTE=Rick] He reached for the D-ring by feel, and when he could not locate it, he looked down at his chest. [/QUOTE] Minor nit: Sport parachute rigs usually do not use a D-ring on the main. Instead, the pilot chute stores in a small sleeve. The skydiver pulls it out and to one side, and releases it into the airstream. The pilot chute then deploys the main chute. This results in a slightly lighter and more compact rig, and eleminates some wear-mechanisms. (which would require inspection, maintainance, etc.) This pretty much requires, though, that the wearer be in stable “flight”. Emergency chutes use a spring loaded pilot chute that will deploy correctly from most any attitude, as stable flight takes practice, which wearers of emergency chutes normally don’t have. Also, standard training for emergency chutes emphasises LOOKING at the D-ring before grabbing it. (with both hands, BTW) If you grab one of the harness straps instead, there is a good chance that you will spend the rest of your life pulling on it. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-parachute-mishap/385489/17 "2006-12-25T18:12:13Z")
[QUOTE=Kevbo] Minor nit: Sport parachute rigs usually do not use a D-ring on the main. Instead, the pilot chute stores in a small sleeve. The skydiver pulls it out and to one side, and releases it into the airstream. The pilot chute then deploys the main chute. This results in a slightly lighter and more compact rig, and eleminates some wear-mechanisms. (which would require inspection, maintainance, etc.) This pretty much requires, though, that the wearer be in stable “flight”. Emergency chutes use a spring loaded pilot chute that will deploy correctly from most any attitude, as stable flight takes practice, which wearers of emergency chutes normally don’t have. Also, standard training for emergency chutes emphasises LOOKING at the D-ring before grabbing it. (with both hands, BTW) If you grab one of the harness straps instead, there is a good chance that you will spend the rest of your life pulling on it. [/QUOTE] I bow to your superior knowledge. I don’t jump out of perfectly good airplanes. ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-parachute-mishap/385489/18 "2006-12-25T19:26:41Z")
[QUOTE=Rick] I bow to your superior knowledge. I don’t jump out of perfectly good airplanes. [/QUOTE] If airplanes were perfectly good we wouldn’t have parachutes 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-parachute-mishap/385489/19 "2006-12-25T20:06:03Z")
[QUOTE=Rick] I bow to your superior knowledge. I don’t jump out of perfectly good airplanes. [/QUOTE] Neither do I. I wear an emergency chute when I fly my sailplane. I’ve got a couple of friends who are very experienced skydivers. I’m 6’5" tall which causes cockpit space issues. I’d like to custom design a chute, to free up some space. This has caused me to ask lots of questions about skydiving practice. Unfortunately, all emergency chutes used in certified aircraft must be FAA certified which is a very expensive process. Also, most of the jump planes I’ve seen skydivers use could only be described as “perfectly good” if you were being sarcastic. ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-parachute-mishap/385489/20 "2006-12-25T20:30:28Z")
[QUOTE=Kevbo] Neither do I. I wear an emergency chute when I fly my sailplane. I’ve got a couple of friends who are very experienced skydivers. I’m 6’5" tall which causes cockpit space issues. I’d like to custom design a chute, to free up some space. This has caused me to ask lots of questions about skydiving practice. Unfortunately, all emergency chutes used in certified aircraft must be FAA certified which is a very expensive process. Also, most of the jump planes I’ve seen skydivers use could only be described as “perfectly good” if you were being sarcastic. [/QUOTE] Getting off-topic but have you contacted any of the sport gear manufacturers? Years ago one of them (I think it was Relative Workshop or Rigging Innovations) had an ad showing the range of harness sizes that they produce featuring a tiny (under 5’ tall) lady and a very large (6’ 6") guy. I’m not positive but I think that some of the folks who make sport gear also make emergency equipment for pilots (although most of them specialize in one part of the system- harness/container vs. the actual canopies). They might be able to help you out. FWIW, sport parachuting gear has to have the combination of harness/container plus emergency parachute certified as well, probably under the same regs as your bailout gear (TSO C23c isn’t it?). The main canopy isn’t subject to FAA regs as far as I know. Yes, commercial jump planes don’t always inspire confidence on first sight; they are stripped of unneccesary weight (much of the interior, seats, etc) and they get an awful lot of wear and tear from being packed full of jumpers. I’m not a mechanic or a pilot but many of the people who actually worked at the DZs I used to jump at were both and it seemed like things were kept in good mechanical condition; sort of like fleet vehicles, they aren’t pretty but they run well. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ultimate-parachute-mishap/385489.md?page=2)