# Um, that doesn't mean what you think it does... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 13, 2007, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-that-doesnt-mean-what-you-think-it-does/426303 "2007-11-13T23:31:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Cemetery\_Savior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Cemetery\_Savior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cemetery_Savior)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2007, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-that-doesnt-mean-what-you-think-it-does/426303/121 "2007-11-15T20:40:18Z")
[QUOTE=fetus] Thirdly, how do you pronounce “caught” and “cot”? “Don” and “Dawn”? “Aaron” and “Erin”? They’re pronounced the same where I am. Is that a “failure”, or a dialect feature? If you think it’s a failure and I’m really just terrible at English, I’ve got some test scores to show you. [/QUOTE] I don’t hear any of those as homonyms…I would term those pronounciations as failures. Who pronounces “Don” and “Dawn” identically? I also don’t buy into the regional dialect thing. I went to school with southerners who had no problems with enunciation, blacks who did not say “axed”, and plenty of Chicagoans who did not “too and tree” their way through counting exercises. It’s enunciation, it’s being aware that how you speak reflects on you personally, and holding your speech to a higher standard. Obviously, I don’t buy into the “right”-ness of linguistic slippage. As far as the OP…at my last job, I had a girl sitting near me who always like to deflect a point of contention by saying it was “mute”. She also bemoaned the lack of empathy for our clients, calling it a “tapestry”. -Cem ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2007, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-that-doesnt-mean-what-you-think-it-does/426303/122 "2007-11-15T20:50:04Z")
[QUOTE=Cemetery Savior] Who pronounces “Don” and “Dawn” identically? [/QUOTE] Quite a few people do, and I find it very confusing. ---
**Author:** ![Cemetery\_Savior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Cemetery\_Savior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cemetery_Savior)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2007, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-that-doesnt-mean-what-you-think-it-does/426303/123 "2007-11-15T21:11:07Z")
[QUOTE=gigi] Quite a few people do, and I find it very confusing. [/QUOTE] Must make it very confusing at karaoke, when someone starts belting out “Delta Don”! 🙂 -Cem ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2007, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-that-doesnt-mean-what-you-think-it-does/426303/124 "2007-11-15T21:27:58Z")
[QUOTE=MizQuirk] This is a simpler thing than those discussed here, and different in some way, but help me understand – how can so many people not know the difference between “bring” and “take”? For example, the late-night talk show host when wrapping up an interview with a celebrity regarding her recent trip to Italy: “Next time you go to Italy, bring me along”. Sign in a deli: “Bring some of our potato salad to your next picnic”. TV weatherman: “You’ll want to bring an umbrella to the ballpark tonight,” etc. What’s so hard to understand about how those “brings” ought to be “takes”? [/QUOTE] Maybe I’m ignorant, but I’m under the impression that you _bring_ and object _to_ something, and you _take_ and object _away_ from something. So I would _bring_ potato salad to the picnic ant _take_ the empty containers with me when I leave. I don’t understand why your examples all need to be “takes.” ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2007, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-that-doesnt-mean-what-you-think-it-does/426303/125 "2007-11-15T21:55:13Z")
I’m not ignorant and I do enuciate. But Cem – I say “Don” and “Dawn” identically. I have no idea how they would be prounounced differently. I tried a different-sounding “Dawn” and it sort of came out sounding like I was trying to do a Wisconsin accent. So, is that it? Honestly confused. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2007, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-that-doesnt-mean-what-you-think-it-does/426303/126 "2007-11-15T21:56:51Z")
[QUOTE=Skammer] Maybe I’m ignorant, but I’m under the impression that you _bring_ and object _to_ something, and you _take_ and object _away_ from something. So I would _bring_ potato salad to the picnic ant _take_ the empty containers with me when I leave. I don’t understand why your examples all need to be “takes.” [/QUOTE] 😕 Yeah, okay. I’m confused too now. Maybe it’s something like “take” is paired up with “go”, and “bring” is paired up with “come”? “I’m going to the park and I’m taking the dog.” “Come to the park with me and bring the dog.” … Yes?.. No? :: whimper :: ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2007, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-that-doesnt-mean-what-you-think-it-does/426303/127 "2007-11-15T22:16:57Z")
Just so you know, some of us intentionally errorize words and phrases for comic relief. Yes, we are errorists. :eek: I like “half of one, six dozen of the other,” and I go to “Radio Snack” if I need an amusing electronic doodad. I listen to “The Whistle and Padlock” on National Public Radio. My dad’s charming widow turns a euphemism back on itself to say it doesn’t mean “doodly-twat.” Caught in a mistake, she says, “Ohhh, I made a fox’s paw!” Don’t worry your little hedge about it. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2007, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-that-doesnt-mean-what-you-think-it-does/426303/128 "2007-11-15T22:28:31Z")
[QUOTE=Skammer] Maybe I’m ignorant, but I’m under the impression that you _bring_ and object _to_ something, and you _take_ and object _away_ from something. So I would _bring_ potato salad to the picnic ant _take_ the empty containers with me when I leave. I don’t understand why your examples all need to be “takes.” [/QUOTE] Bring and Take are tricky, and they cause a lot of arguments. My own impression is that it depends on the location of the speaker. Take is away from the speaker, and bring is toward the speaker. So, when you call your mechanic to say, “I need to take my car in for a tune-up,” and he replies, “Sure, bring it in tomorrow morning,” both are correct. ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2007, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-that-doesnt-mean-what-you-think-it-does/426303/129 "2007-11-15T22:32:07Z")
[QUOTE=pulykamell] Her: I’m looking forward to seeing you, I can finally show you some good, old-fashioned German hostility. Me: 😕 Did you say “hostility”? Her: Yes. What, is that not the right word? Me: I hope not. _laugh_ Us Poles know enough about German hostility… _I hear sounds of her leafing through a dictionary in the background_ Her: Hold on, hold on…_hospitality_! _leafs back to check meaning of ‘hostility’_ Oh no, no, no. Why are those two words so close? [/QUOTE] To add to the confusion, a _hostel_ is a place in which you expect hospitality, as opposed to hostility! ---
**Author:** ![AngryIrishLass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bbce88/32.png) [@AngryIrishLass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngryIrishLass)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2007, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-that-doesnt-mean-what-you-think-it-does/426303/130 "2007-11-15T23:13:35Z")
I get popped on picture every time. I pronounce it pitcher. Also, growing up, for some odd reason I pronouned railroad like rale-road, emphasis on a long ‘a’. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-that-doesnt-mean-what-you-think-it-does/426303/131 "2007-11-16T00:20:45Z")
[QUOTE=Telperien] I don’t know the proper linguistic terms, but (at least in the way I say them) “cot” is kind of short and clipped, while I tend to stretch out the vowel sound in “caught” a bit–it takes me a little bit longer to say the word. As for “Erin” and “Aaron,” Erin is air-in and Aaron is more like air-un. The only difference is the second syllable. [/QUOTE] We talk alike, and I grew up in West Virginia. The words “Don” and “Dawn” sound different out of my mouth like “cot” and “caught” The bed “cot” is simply : cot while “caught” is “caw-ught” although said quickly A very subtle difference. Same way: “Don” as opposed to: “Daw-un” said quickly. ---
**Author:** ![MizQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/94ad74/32.png) [@MizQuirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MizQuirk)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-that-doesnt-mean-what-you-think-it-does/426303/132 "2007-11-16T01:43:44Z")
[QUOTE=Swallowed My Cellphone] 😕 Yeah, okay. I’m confused too now. Maybe it’s something like “take” is paired up with “go”, and “bring” is paired up with “come”? “I’m going to the park and I’m taking the dog.” “Come to the park with me and bring the dog.” … Yes?.. No? :: whimper :: [/QUOTE] Yes, right. And it also has to do with where the speaker is when s/he says it, as in bring it here / take it there, and come here / go there. If we’re to bring their potato salad to our next picnic, it sounds like the deli will be having our next picnic, but since it’s not, we should be told to “take” it to our next picnic. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-that-doesnt-mean-what-you-think-it-does/426303/133 "2007-11-16T01:50:42Z")
> [@Swallowed My Cellphone](#): > > Yeah, I have relatives in Pennsylvania and the Southwest, and “poor,” “pour”, “pore” all sound the same if you’ve got the right drawl in your accent. I don’t have a drawl at all and I pronounce them all the same. I guess it’s pretty widespread. > [@Telperien](#): > > I don’t know the proper linguistic terms, but (at least in the way I say them) “cot” is kind of short and clipped, while I tend to stretch out the vowel sound in “caught” a bit Those are two different vowels altogether, actually. (“au” represents one vowel in this case.) I’m talking about phonetic vowels, ie vowel sounds, not “spelling” vowels; don’t let the actual letters representing the vowels confuse you, as they tend to mean almost nothing useful. > [@gigi](#): > > Aaron: a like pat, un > [@Telperien](#): > > As for “Erin” and “Aaron,” Erin is air-in and Aaron is more like air-un. Interesting. > [@Cemetary Savior](#): > > I would term those pronounciations as failures. Who pronounces “Don” and “Dawn” identically? [Lots of people](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cot-caught_merger#Cot-caught_merger), asshat. > [@Cemetary Savior](#): > > I also don’t buy into the regional dialect thing. I went to school with southerners who had no problems with enunciation Why do you insist that other people who speak differently from you have “problems”? I’ll be honest, you’re really starting to piss me off, and I’m biting my tongue a fair bit at this point. > [@Cemetary Savior](#): > > blacks who did not say “axed” Who said that all blacks speak in AAVE? Even if they did, [not everybody uses every single defining feature of their dialect, ignoring all other dialects.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiolect) > [@Cemetary Savior](#): > > It’s enunciation, it’s being aware that how you speak reflects on you personally, and holding your speech to a higher standard. You’re talking about [register](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Register_%28linguistics%29), which refers to the conscious process speakers use to modify their language for the setting they’re in. Unless, of course, you speak the exact same way at an interview, in church, or when talking to your mother-in-law as you would at a Halloween party. > [@Cemetary Savior](#): > > Obviously, I don’t buy into the “right”-ness of linguistic slippage. Who says language is “slipping”? Linguistic change, sometimes radical change, has been occurring for thousands of years. Of course, maybe you think it’s a travesty that “mice” is pronounced the way it is today, and that Proper English Speakers should pronounce it “meese” like those Proper Englishmen of the late 12th century, in which case I’m afraid I can’t help you. > [@Cemetary Savior](#): > > She also bemoaned the lack of empathy for our clients, calling it a “tapestry”. OK, that’s funny. 😃 > [@Cemetary Savior](#): > > Must make it very confusing at karaoke, when someone starts belting out “Delta Don”! Actually, no, we pronounce both the way you would say “Don”. ---
**Author:** ![Telperien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@Telperien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperien)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-that-doesnt-mean-what-you-think-it-does/426303/134 "2007-11-16T02:12:07Z")
[QUOTE=jtgain] We talk alike, and I grew up in West Virginia. The words “Don” and “Dawn” sound different out of my mouth like “cot” and “caught” The bed “cot” is simply : cot while “caught” is “caw-ught” although said quickly A very subtle difference. Same way: “Don” as opposed to: “Daw-un” said quickly. [/QUOTE] That’s it exactly. I am from west central Louisiana, and I have a noticeable accent (to people with a different accent, of course), and I spent the years from age ten to twenty in southeastern Pennsylvania. I’ve lost all that particular accent now, though I do use some Pennsylvania words, like “soda.” It’s much easier for me to say the words than to describe how I say them, since I lack the linguistics background. I also pronounce poor/pore/pour all the same way. Though my grasp of grammar is generally good, take and bring still confuse me. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-that-doesnt-mean-what-you-think-it-does/426303/135 "2007-11-16T02:59:32Z")
[QUOTE=Telperien] Though my grasp of grammar is generally good, take and bring still confuse me. [/QUOTE] That’s because the difference has been practically rendered meaningless in modern (American?) English. Many of us would love it if people could distinguish correctly between who and whom, but the language has moved away from that. C’est la vie. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-that-doesnt-mean-what-you-think-it-does/426303/136 "2007-11-16T03:04:13Z")
[QUOTE=fetus] That’s because the difference has been practically rendered meaningless in modern (American?) English. Many of us would love it if people could distinguish correctly between who and whom, but the language has moved away from that. C’est la vie. [/QUOTE] La vie ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-that-doesnt-mean-what-you-think-it-does/426303/137 "2007-11-16T03:38:39Z")
[QUOTE=fetus] Do you pronounce every single consonant in (for example) “asked” or “old-fashioned” or “instinct” or “arctic”? [/QUOTE] Yes. I say “pep-per-awn-CHEE-nee”, too! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-that-doesnt-mean-what-you-think-it-does/426303/138 "2007-11-16T09:44:29Z")
[QUOTE=AskNott] Bring and Take are tricky, and they cause a lot of arguments. My own impression is that it depends on the location of the speaker. Take is away from the speaker, and bring is toward the speaker. So, when you call your mechanic to say, “I need to take my car in for a tune-up,” and he replies, “Sure, bring it in tomorrow morning,” both are correct. [/QUOTE] I’d be happy to say “I need to bring my car in for a tune-up” as the implication would be I’m going to the person I’m talking to, and the car is coming with me; and he could say “Sure, bring it in tomorrow morning” or “Sorry, we’re booked up solid - you could bring it in the week after next, or take it to Smith’s if you’re in a hurry”. ---
**Author:** ![cedman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cedman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cedman)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-that-doesnt-mean-what-you-think-it-does/426303/139 "2007-11-16T14:12:56Z")
I once managed a hotel near a famous medical center. We had a woman come in to rent a room because her husband had been admitted to the hospital with “cerebral hemmoroids” and they were going to do some “testes” later that day. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2007, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-that-doesnt-mean-what-you-think-it-does/426303/140 "2007-11-16T17:16:56Z")
[QUOTE=lorene] I have known two people (who did not know each other) who have used the word \*emancipated \*when they meant _emaciated_. Makes me wonder what they think the Emancipation Proclamation was all about. [/QUOTE] It’s a good thing I read the whole thread before replying! This mix-up got really weird when someone told me she “doesn’t like her guys so emancipated” as someone we knew. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-that-doesnt-mean-what-you-think-it-does/426303.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-that-doesnt-mean-what-you-think-it-does/426303.md?page=8)