# Um, where exactly in the Bible does it says that women are inferior to men? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 26, 2002, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-where-exactly-in-the-bible-does-it-says-that-women-are-inferior-to-men/116026 "2002-06-26T13:26:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-where-exactly-in-the-bible-does-it-says-that-women-are-inferior-to-men/116026/41 "2002-06-28T15:29:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Steve Wright \* > \*\*Samson was a [Nazarite](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10727a.htm), a specially consecrated member of a sect, whose vows included not cutting their hair. Jesus was not a Nazarite, but a Nazarene (i.e. someone from Nazareth) - one suspects, though, that the similarity of the words (and the fact that some early Christians did take temporary Nazarite vows) might have misled some illustrators. > \*\* And, in fact, in Hebrew, they are two different words. The root of the word _nazir_ in Hebrew is nun- **zayin** -reish. The letters of Nazareth in Hebrew is nun- **tzadi** -reish. A _zayin_ has a ‘z’ sound, while a _tzadi_ has a ‘ts’ sound (as in ‘fits’). Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-where-exactly-in-the-bible-does-it-says-that-women-are-inferior-to-men/116026/42 "2002-06-28T15:43:12Z")
ohhh. so close. I thought we’d get through a celestina thread with out her [giggling] ---
**Author:** ![hardygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@hardygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hardygrrl)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-where-exactly-in-the-bible-does-it-says-that-women-are-inferior-to-men/116026/43 "2002-06-28T15:51:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jarbabyj \* > \*\*ohhh. so close. I thought we’d get through a celestina thread with out her [giggling] \*\* Or a million smilies. ---
**Author:** ![Tir\_Tinuviel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@Tir\_Tinuviel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tir_Tinuviel)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-where-exactly-in-the-bible-does-it-says-that-women-are-inferior-to-men/116026/44 "2002-06-28T16:15:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hardygrrl \* > \*\* > > Or a million smilies. \*\* :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D ---
**Author:** ![hardygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@hardygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hardygrrl)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-where-exactly-in-the-bible-does-it-says-that-women-are-inferior-to-men/116026/45 "2002-06-28T17:15:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tir Tinuviel \* > \*\* > > :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D \*\* Spanking Time! ---
**Author:** ![Tir\_Tinuviel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@Tir\_Tinuviel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tir_Tinuviel)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-where-exactly-in-the-bible-does-it-says-that-women-are-inferior-to-men/116026/46 "2002-06-28T17:21:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hardygrrl \* > \*\* > Spanking Time! \*\* [giggles] ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-where-exactly-in-the-bible-does-it-says-that-women-are-inferior-to-men/116026/47 "2002-06-28T19:45:59Z")
celestina: It was a joke. That there **is** no verse Revelation 22:22. Meaning it _doesn’t_ state that in the Bible. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-where-exactly-in-the-bible-does-it-says-that-women-are-inferior-to-men/116026/48 "2002-06-28T21:25:08Z")
A spanking! A spanking! And afterwards, the oral sex. **Captain Amazing** , I’ve no doubt that what you’ve said is correct, and insightful to boot. As I also have no doubt that what I’ve said is correct (I’ll let you judge the insightfulness). That’s the thing - we don’t often let writers off the hook just because they were writing in a different time with different mores. It’s true that we often gain more insights and a wider lens with which to view information when we take a look at the author’s environment, but that doesn’t mean that I’ve got to agree with it or that it can’t stand some revisionist ideas years later. It might make it easier to accept and understand, but it doesn’t make it less oppressive. I do thank you for your response, however - it’s interesting and well-called for. A little tolerance and understanding is never a bad thing. Another point - since Milton (and Paul) is taking his source from an even older text, perhaps we should be examining that text. [Disclaimer] I do not believe in the literal truth of the Bible. Rather, I prefer to explore it in terms of literary criticism.[/Disclaimer] Knowing that creation myths are often used to describe why things are they way they are now, and that Biblical authors often used the texts as their chance to press ideals suitable for that time, my take on it is that the author(s) of Genesis perhaps used the text for their own aims - to either describe why women were the weaker sex or continue that practice. It’s unfortunate that the patriarchial church that developed has taken that message to an extreme. Yikes - perhaps this is too well-reasoned for the pit. A thousand apologies. Snicks ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-where-exactly-in-the-bible-does-it-says-that-women-are-inferior-to-men/116026/49 "2002-06-28T21:29:14Z")
As for the pristine Adam and seductive Eve, aaahh, I’m used to it. Patriarchial church and all that. Snicks ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-where-exactly-in-the-bible-does-it-says-that-women-are-inferior-to-men/116026/50 "2002-06-28T22:02:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Snickers \* > \*\*That’s the thing - we don’t often let writers off the hook just because they were writing in a different time with different mores. \*\* Well, we do, though. For example, even though “The Merchant of Venice” is a really anti-semetic play, that doesn’t stop us from saying Shakespeare was a great writer. We do it with historical figures, also. By our standards today, Abraham Lincoln would probably be considered a racist. He enjoyed “nigger jokes”, and believed whites were superior to blacks. In spite of this, he’s rightly considered a hero of civil rights. If someone today, put food outside his door once a year because he believed that angry wandering ghosts would kill and eat him if he didn’t, we’d probably think the guy was loony. But the ancient Romans did that, and they couldn’t all have been insane. I’m not saying you should agree with either Paul’s or Milton’s position on women, but that doesn’t mean that Paul is crazy, a mysogynistic control freak, and has an inferiority complex, or Milton had a gigantic ego. That was my problem with a lot of the responses to this thread. They seemed to focus on the idea that Paul and Milton were somehow terrible people, and I don’t think that’s true. ---
**Author:** ![celestina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/258eb7/32.png) [@celestina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/celestina)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2002, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-where-exactly-in-the-bible-does-it-says-that-women-are-inferior-to-men/116026/51 "2002-06-29T04:58:03Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by jarbabyj_ > **ohhh. so close. I thought we’d get through a celestina thread with out her [giggling]** [celestina scratching her head] But, **jarbabyj** , I’m the GIGGLEMEISTER. [giggle] Giggling is what I _do_ for a living around here. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hardygrrl \* > \*\* > > Or a million smilies. \*\* **hardygrrrl** , hon, I happen to like smilies. I think they’re cute and cool. 🆒 So 😛 And as the GIGGLEMEISTER, I also virtually paddle those most in need of a virtual spanking. **Tir Tinuviel** , what an interesting name you have. 🙂 What does it mean? I’m curious. Do you like smilies and virtual spankings, hon? :smack: :o **vanilla** , thank you for breaking that down for me. I sure thought I’d completely missed something. ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2002, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-where-exactly-in-the-bible-does-it-says-that-women-are-inferior-to-men/116026/52 "2002-06-29T11:20:01Z")
I believe one of the Fab Four stated that a silent wife was, “a gift from God.” Believe it or don’t, this masterpiece was a reading during WWI, (Waverly Wedding #1.) The female wearing the whitish dress that day never did pay attention to this directive from above. Pfft. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![hardygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@hardygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hardygrrl)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2002, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-where-exactly-in-the-bible-does-it-says-that-women-are-inferior-to-men/116026/53 "2002-06-29T16:25:33Z")
> [@](#): > > But, jarbabyj, I’m the GIGGLEMEISTER. [giggle] Giggling is what I do for a living around here > [@](#): > > hardygrrl, hon, I happen to like smilies. I think they’re cute and cool. So And as the GIGGLEMEISTER, I also virtually paddle those most in need of a virtual spanking. Your call. FWIW, it’s hard to take someone’s opinion seriously when they come across like a cheerleader after a four Zima bender. ---
**Author:** ![celestina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/258eb7/32.png) [@celestina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/celestina)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2002, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-where-exactly-in-the-bible-does-it-says-that-women-are-inferior-to-men/116026/54 "2002-06-29T17:12:38Z")
**hardygrrrl** , this is fascinating. I appreciate you bringing this up because I really don’t know how I come across to others. I’m just me. 🙂 So what you’re trying to tell me is that you and perhaps other Dopers don’t take what I have to say seriously because y’all think I’m some kind of high school cheerleader who has bad taste in her choice of alcoholic beverages? Oh dear. If it is, then I’ve completely given the wrong impression of myself on these here boards. [giggle] Oh, I’m so embarrassed. However, I must admit I’m a little confused. I don’t see the cheerleader angle at all. I don’t view when I post as me being at a game and trying to stir up school spirit or anything, and I know that I’m far from being a ditz, if you’re invoking the stereotype of the ditzy cheerleader who’s only concerned with how she looks and does nothing to improve her mind. I mean I do have plenty to learn, and I love learning about new things and studying the myriad facets of human behavior. And as far as drinking goes, I don’t drink and post at the same time all that often at all, but when I do drink, I go for the good stuff like Scotch or a good wine or real beer. Before folks start getting all up in arms over me being a drink snob, I’ll admit I am a snob when it comes to food and drink, but I respect other folks’ rights to indulge their taste buds how they see fit too. Now, I do aim to be a clown, but in my view clowns are important in life because laughter is important in life. Some folks are so fucking serious all the damn time. Life’s too short. I say folks need to learn how to have some fun, go out and hug somebody, or smile at them, and bring joy to others when they can, and if folks can look beneath the laughter and learn something along the way, then that’s lovely too. Of course too much of anything is not good, and perhaps I err on the side of clown too much, but I will admit that there have been times that I’ve posted on this board with nary a smilie nor a giggle. :eek: Yes. It is true. I find it difficult to believe myself, but, you know, the times I’ve been serious on this board, I’ve felt like folks didn’t know what to do or how to act or respond to what I’ve posted. [sigh] It seems like I’m damned if I do and damned if I don’t. I should say that in my role as GIGGLEMEISTER, I ain’t trying to win no popularity contest on the SDMB, and if I’ve managed to make some folks’ Ignore list, then that’s just their loss. They just can’t handle what I have to offer. [shrug] It’s a big world out there, and not everybody’s going to get along with everybody else. C’est la vie. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2002, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-where-exactly-in-the-bible-does-it-says-that-women-are-inferior-to-men/116026/55 "2002-06-29T18:14:33Z")
You are just invalidating any good point you make in a serious discussion by going [giggle] like some kid on the Enrique Inglasias message board. ---
**Author:** ![hardygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@hardygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hardygrrl)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2002, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-where-exactly-in-the-bible-does-it-says-that-women-are-inferior-to-men/116026/56 "2002-06-29T18:28:12Z")
> [@](#): > > hardygrrrl, this is fascinating. I appreciate you bringing this up because I really don’t know how I come across to others Like someone who could post about seeing the Four Horsemen of the Apocolypse and [giggle]. To each their own, I guess. > [@](#): > > I should say that in my role as GIGGLEMEISTER Is that like the HeatMizer? Notice the above was short, sweet and to the point. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2002, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-where-exactly-in-the-bible-does-it-says-that-women-are-inferior-to-men/116026/57 "2002-06-29T18:35:01Z")
**Celestina** in Quenya, Tir Tinuviel would translate as “guardian of the nightingale”, or even “bird watcher”. Tinuviel was the name Beren gave to Luthien, for her dark tresses and the sweetness of her song. It goes similarly in Sindarin. I don’t know if that’s where the poster **Tir Tinuviel** is coming from or not. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2002, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-where-exactly-in-the-bible-does-it-says-that-women-are-inferior-to-men/116026/58 "2002-06-29T18:39:45Z")
Quadgop, you are correct. That is indeed exacly where she got the name from. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2002, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-where-exactly-in-the-bible-does-it-says-that-women-are-inferior-to-men/116026/59 "2002-06-29T19:11:45Z")
So is she “nightingale guardian” or “bird watcher”? ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2002, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-where-exactly-in-the-bible-does-it-says-that-women-are-inferior-to-men/116026/60 "2002-06-30T01:03:13Z")
Nightingale guardian. but I believe its closer to LAdy Nightingale 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-where-exactly-in-the-bible-does-it-says-that-women-are-inferior-to-men/116026.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/um-where-exactly-in-the-bible-does-it-says-that-women-are-inferior-to-men/116026.md?page=4)