# Umpires give a free out, free win to WhiteSox **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 13, 2005, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/umpires-give-a-free-out-free-win-to-whitesox/326013 "2005-10-13T03:06:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/umpires-give-a-free-out-free-win-to-whitesox/326013/101 "2005-10-13T18:46:14Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Eddings fucked up by making a BAD call, not a wrong call. He deserves scorn. Well, I don’t think he’s going to be greeted with puppies and rainbows by the fans in Anaheim in Friday. Wouldn’t mind hearing those umpire introductions. ---
**Author:** ![mazinger\_z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@mazinger\_z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mazinger_z)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/umpires-give-a-free-out-free-win-to-whitesox/326013/102 "2005-10-13T19:00:44Z")
Let’s not forget that 1) Ozuna’s stealing of second; and 2) Crede’s double off the wall (just missing a home run) also contributed to a White Sox winner. I’ve been looking for a video all day (well, when I wasn’t in a meeting) and everyone I’ve talked to has agreed that the video evidence is inconclusive (I’ll still say it’s trapped). The center field camera looks like it’s a clean catch; but, if you stayed up late like I did, the crew in the truck showed a blown up side view and it looks like it changes direction. As to the lack of dirt, any properly wet down ground (like long/triple jump pits in track) won’t kick up much dirt, unless it’s a slide. ---
**Author:** ![Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cab0a1/32.png) [@Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Man_With_a_Cat)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/umpires-give-a-free-out-free-win-to-whitesox/326013/103 "2005-10-13T19:01:24Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Eddings fucked up by making a BAD call, not a wrong call. He deserves scorn. I can agree on that, even as a Sox fan. In the grand tradition of the Pit, I say we declare him a fucktard! ---
**Author:** ![brianjedi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@brianjedi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianjedi)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/umpires-give-a-free-out-free-win-to-whitesox/326013/104 "2005-10-13T20:05:34Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Well, whatever else happened, at least the result gets ChiSox third base coach Joey Cora off the hook. I mean, what the fuck was he thinking sending Aaron Rowand home after that double down the right field line? Rowand would have been at third base with no-one out. > > I can understand sending the runner if there’s two out, but with no-one out the odds of getting a runner home from third are pretty damn good. All it takes is an outfield fly, or even an infield grounder that doesn’t go straight to a fielder. The fly ball hit by Crede two batters later would have got him home on a sacrifice, and the White Sox would have been up 2-1. Perhaps Cora’s a graduate of the Dale Sveum School of 3B Coaching? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/umpires-give-a-free-out-free-win-to-whitesox/326013/105 "2005-10-13T20:21:43Z")
Anything that contributes to the Angels NOT having a victory parade down Katella Avenue, tying up traffic, and disrupting bus schedules, is a thing that makes the Baby Jesus smile. So sayeth the **dad**. And the **dad** abides. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/umpires-give-a-free-out-free-win-to-whitesox/326013/106 "2005-10-13T20:34:07Z")
> [@brianjedi](#): > > Perhaps Cora’s a graduate of the Dale Sveum School of 3B Coaching? Heh. Although, to be fair, if you’re thinking of the incident at Fenway against the Yankees this year, Doug Mirabelli was equally to blame for messing things up. If he had been looking at the base coach as he rounded second, he would have seen that he had held Millar at third, and Mirabelli could then have stopped at second. If that had happened, the Red Sox would have had the bases loaded with one out. Sure, you can easily make the argument that Sveum should have sent Millar home. With Bernie Williams’ crappy throwing arm, it’s always worth sending the runner when the ball is hit to center field. In that situation, the Sox would have got a run, and would have had runners at the corners with 1 out. A better result. But the runner coming from first has to be aware of what’s happening in front of him. Mirabelli messed up by not doing that. ---
**Author:** ![deadeyesdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dec6dc/32.png) [@deadeyesdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deadeyesdad)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/umpires-give-a-free-out-free-win-to-whitesox/326013/107 "2005-10-13T21:41:00Z")
Jim Rome had almost his whole show about this today. He found a similar play in the 6th inning. Molina is batting and AJ is catching. Dropped 3rd strike. Ump holds right hand towards first. AJ picks up ball tags Benji. Now ump pumps fist. He waited until after the tag to pump his fist. He pumped his fist immediatly in the 9th. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/umpires-give-a-free-out-free-win-to-whitesox/326013/108 "2005-10-13T22:19:33Z")
> [@deadeyesdad](#): > > Jim Rome had almost his whole show about this today. He found a similar play in the 6th inning. Molina is batting and AJ is catching. Dropped 3rd strike. Ump holds right hand towards first. AJ picks up ball tags Benji. Now ump pumps fist. He waited until after the tag to pump his fist. He pumped his fist immediatly in the 9th. If if was a dropped third strike, it wasn’t a similar play. The Angels catcher CAUGHT the ball. You’ve never in the history of baseball had to tag out a batter who struck out when you caught the ball, which is why the Angels catcher didn’t do it. Sure, it’s easy to second guess him and say he should have done it anyway. Hindsight is 20/20, eh? Are we going to see all third strikes lobbed to first now, because we have to assume the umpire isn’t paying attention? It’s easy to say the Angels should have gotten Crede out. Four outs, Five outs – however many outs the umpire that day feels like making you get, you just gotta get, right? The condescending, injustice-defending, glib, obsequious, authority-defending culture here… does it come from Bush backing or Mod ass licking? Just curious. ---
**Author:** ![Loopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loopus/32/15343_2.png) [@Loopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopus)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/umpires-give-a-free-out-free-win-to-whitesox/326013/109 "2005-10-13T22:31:03Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > Sure, it’s easy to second guess him and say he should have done it anyway. Hindsight is 20/20, eh? Are we going to see all third strikes lobbed to first now, because we have to assume the umpire isn’t paying attention? How about just the ones caught near or on the ground? (The catcher’s glove, in this case, was on the ground when he caught it.) Or how about the catcher just holds on to the ball until he hears/sees the umpire definitely say/signal “out”? (Even if the umpire did signal “out” in this case, at the time he did the catcher had already lobbed the ball back to the mound and started scampering toward the dugout.) **Blown calls are a part of the game** , and it’s just dumb to always assume that the umpire will make the right one. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/umpires-give-a-free-out-free-win-to-whitesox/326013/110 "2005-10-13T22:54:25Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > The ball didn’t “change direction.” That’s complete horseshit. I dunno. Was Governor Connolly hit by the same baseball? ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/umpires-give-a-free-out-free-win-to-whitesox/326013/111 "2005-10-14T00:04:20Z")
> [@Loopus](#): > > **Blown calls are a part of the game** , and it’s just dumb to always assume that the umpire will make the right one. It’s one thing to have the ump blow the call. You’re right, that happens. But that’s not the problem. The ump clearly **made** the call, then changed his mind about the call without giving any indication to the Angels that he had done so until Pierzynski was on first. Eddings made that fist pump motion to indicate an out every time he was supposed to do so. To say that it suddenly didn’t indicate an out on this one particular play is ridiculous on his part. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/umpires-give-a-free-out-free-win-to-whitesox/326013/112 "2005-10-14T00:17:27Z")
The umpire never made an out call. He only made a strike call, It was the same strike motion he had used for the whole game. On Sportscenter they showed a bunch of other swinging strikes where he used the exact same combo of an outstretched arm (indicating that the batter had not made contact with the ball) followed by the fist pump indicating a strike. For an out call, he used a bigger motion and verbally called an “Out!” ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/umpires-give-a-free-out-free-win-to-whitesox/326013/113 "2005-10-14T00:19:55Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > The condescending, injustice-defending, glib, obsequious, authority-defending culture here… does it come from Bush backing or Mod ass licking? Just curious. No. I don’t like Bush and there are no Mod asses I have knowingly licked. Maybe a lot of the folks here are simply willing to acknowledge that umpires are humans and humans make mistakes. It looks like this guy made a mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/umpires-give-a-free-out-free-win-to-whitesox/326013/114 "2005-10-14T00:22:52Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > The umpire never made an out call. He only made a strike call, It was the same strike motion he had used for the whole game. On Sportscenter they showed a bunch of other swinging strikes where he used the exact same combo of an outstretched arm (indicating that the batter had not made contact with the ball) followed by the fist pump indicating a strike. For an out call, he used a bigger motion and verbally called an “Out!” It really doesn’t matter if he didn’t do his signature “out” interpretive dance. The fact that there is so much debate over this call means that he blew it. ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/umpires-give-a-free-out-free-win-to-whitesox/326013/115 "2005-10-14T00:23:48Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > But fuck it. It’s over now, and the Angels have to do what they can. I, for one, enjoy the fact that if the WhiteSox win in seven games and go on to win the World Series, it’ll be tainted by a bad call. I’ll always say they “bought the umps”, just to wind people up. EXACTLY! I just tell fans it’s an asterisk just to tweak them. But seriously, they had at least 26 other at-bats to change the outcome of the game. If the Angels had a 2-run lead, it wouldn’t have mattered. It’s stupid to say one bad call loses the game. In the 1985, Cards fans tried to pull that when the Royals beat them in the Series. There was a really bad call on 1st base, which happened in GAME 6, where they lost 11-0! I mean, the game wasn’t even close and there was still a game 7 to play. Cards fans tried to say that’s the only reason they lost the ENTIRE Series. ---
**Author:** ![Petey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f1d935/32.png) [@Petey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Petey)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/umpires-give-a-free-out-free-win-to-whitesox/326013/116 "2005-10-14T00:35:13Z")
> [@HubZilla](#): > > EXACTLY! I just tell fans it’s an asterisk just to tweak them. > > But seriously, they had at least 26 other at-bats to change the outcome of the game. If the Angels had a 2-run lead, it wouldn’t have mattered. It’s stupid to say one bad call loses the game. In the 1985, Cards fans tried to pull that when the Royals beat them in the Series. There was a really bad call on 1st base, which happened in GAME 6, where they lost 11-0! I mean, the game wasn’t even close and there was still a game 7 to play. Cards fans tried to say that’s the only reason they lost the ENTIRE Series. Just like Cubs fans will blame a fellow fan for losing a game in the 8th inning, when the pitcher and fielders gave up 8 runs that inning, then lost game 7. Buckner’s error was also in game 6 and people forget that it was a tie game when the ball went through his legs. You already see people forgetting that it was a tie game when this call happened. ---
**Author:** ![Petey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f1d935/32.png) [@Petey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Petey)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/umpires-give-a-free-out-free-win-to-whitesox/326013/117 "2005-10-14T00:39:31Z")
> [@HubZilla](#): > > There was a really bad call on 1st base, which happened in GAME 6, where they lost 11-0! I mean, the game wasn’t even close and there was still a game 7 to play. Cards fans tried to say that’s the only reason they lost the ENTIRE Series. I should correct you, though, game 7 was lost 11-0. The Cards were leading game 6 1-0 in the 9th when the bad call happened. They lost in the 9th 2-1. ---
**Author:** ![Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cab0a1/32.png) [@Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Man_With_a_Cat)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/umpires-give-a-free-out-free-win-to-whitesox/326013/118 "2005-10-14T00:42:26Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > The condescending, injustice-defending, glib, obsequious, authority-defending culture here… does it come from Bush backing or Mod ass licking? Just curious. Yes. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/umpires-give-a-free-out-free-win-to-whitesox/326013/119 "2005-10-14T00:46:42Z")
> [@Petey](#): > > I should correct you, though, game 7 was lost 11-0. The Cards were leading game 6 1-0 in the 9th when the bad call happened. They lost in the 9th 2-1. Memory was hazy. I just remember it wasn’t a last-ditch thing. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/umpires-give-a-free-out-free-win-to-whitesox/326013/120 "2005-10-14T00:56:41Z")
Does anyone think I’m arguing that bad calls don’t happen? 😕 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/umpires-give-a-free-out-free-win-to-whitesox/326013.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/umpires-give-a-free-out-free-win-to-whitesox/326013.md?page=7)