# UN: Crucial and Irrelevant? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 20, 2003, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-crucial-and-irrelevant/202844 "2003-09-20T20:38:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2003, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-crucial-and-irrelevant/202844/21 "2003-09-21T13:51:52Z")
hhmm… sailor that might be an option… but then the blood of US soldiers will still be spilt. In the long term that will hurt Bush. Some money is being spent anyway due to troop maintenance and minimal support of infrastructure needed. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2003, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-crucial-and-irrelevant/202844/22 "2003-09-21T15:35:10Z")
**adaher** , > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by SimonX \* > \*\* > Does someone_\*, (you),\*\* have a good idea as to how we can do this\*\*,(reconstruction of Iraq),\*\* in a manner acceptable to the American electorate w/o UN help? \*\* ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2003, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-crucial-and-irrelevant/202844/23 "2003-09-21T15:37:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > \*\*What did GW ever say to make you think that Iraq was going to be ‘easy’? > > In other words, cite? \*\* Rumsfeld said that we’d be down to 30,000 troops in Iraq by September. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2003, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-crucial-and-irrelevant/202844/24 "2003-09-21T16:17:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*[What Went Wrong In Iraq?\*\*](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/07/iraq/printable571971.shtml) > > Oil revenues…will only be 40% of what the administration had counted on for the foreseeable future. > > _©MMIII, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved_ ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2003, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-crucial-and-irrelevant/202844/25 "2003-09-21T17:23:28Z")
\*\*[So what’s happening with the Iraqi oil?\*\*](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=210625) Here’s a link to a GQ thread. Among the notable posts from this thread: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Una Persson \* > \*\*Well, I can tell you some production figures. For this year, according to the EIA, Iraqi oil production (including lease condensate) was: > > Jan: 2,555 thousand barrels/day > Feb: 2,490 thousand barrels/day > Mar: 1,373 thousand barrels/day > Apr: 53 thousand barrels/day > May: 293 thousand barrels/day > Jun: 453 thousand barrels/day > > (from: [http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/ipsr/t11a.xls](http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/ipsr/t11a.xls) ) > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tomndebb \* > \*\* Iraq is a debtor nation and over 90% of the _predicted_ oil revenues (which have not yet been met) are _already committed_ to repayment of outstanding debt in the region,**[$120bil],** partly as a result of the first Gulf War and the war with Iran and partly from other borrowing. This is not debt that can be simply written off, since the creditors are the same people/banks/countries that Iraq must deal with in order to survive as a nation and none of those creditors can afford to simply write off those debts. > There are no profits from Iraqi oil. The rebuilding is being financed by U.S. taxpayers and the proceeds of any oil sale is being used to supplement the reconstruction funds with any future earnings already earmarked for relief services and debt. \*\* Emphasis mine ---
**Author:** ![FoamChomsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8dc957/32.png) [@FoamChomsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoamChomsky)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-crucial-and-irrelevant/202844/26 "2003-09-22T10:11:10Z")
Let’s be fair now. Things are by no means perfect, but Iraq is producing oil again… to the tune of over a half million barrels last month from its northern oil fields: > [@](#): > > The big change for OPEC came with a 60 per cent increase in Iraqi output to an average of 1.05 million barrels a day. However, this was less than half of what Iraq pumped before the U.S.-led invasion. > > Iraq produced 550,000 barrels a day at its northern oil fields in August, but sabotage against Iraq’s pipeline to Turkey has shut down a vital export route. With limited storage, Iraqis have had to reinject much of this northern oil back into its underground reservoirs after stripping out natural gas for use in cooking. [http://www.canada.com/news/business/story.asp?id=E0AAB54B-469E-487C-AC88-2BE0F9843DF1](http://www.canada.com/news/business/story.asp?id=E0AAB54B-469E-487C-AC88-2BE0F9843DF1) As for the issue of life in Iraq “not improving”, why not listen to what the Iraqis had to say about it in the recent Zogby poll: [http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/979368/posts](http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/979368/posts) > [@](#): > > The results show that the Iraqi public is more sensible, stable and moderate than commonly portrayed, and that Iraq is not so fanatical, or resentful of the U.S., after all.• Iraqis are optimistic. Seven out of 10 say they expect their country and their personal lives will be better five years from now. On both fronts, 32% say things will become much better. > > ``` > * * * > > ``` > > • Asked to name one country they would most like Iraq to model its new government on from five possibilities – neighboring, Baathist Syria; neighbor and Islamic monarchy Saudi Arabia; neighbor and Islamist republic Iran; Arab lodestar Egypt; or the U.S. – the most popular model by far was the U.S. The U.S. was preferred as a model by 37% of Iraqis selecting from those five – more than Syria, Iran and Egypt put together. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-crucial-and-irrelevant/202844/27 "2003-09-22T11:38:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FoamChomsky \* > \*\*Let’s be fair now. Things are by no means perfect, but Iraq is producing oil again… to the tune of over a half million barrels last month from its northern oil fields: > \*\* Production is different than export. Iraq’s domestice consumption is 460,000 bbl/day. As further reference to how much income is expected from the petro sector: > [@](#): > > The CPA said it would cover next year’s $12bn-$13bn (£7.4bn-£7.9bn) budget with oil revenues **_and_ taxes** , leaving donor money to be spent on infrastructure.[_© Copyright The Financial Times Ltd 2003_](http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStory&c=StoryFT&cid=1059479991397&p=1012571727088) Apparently, we have decded to allow for foreign companies to buy up Iraq’s infrastructure as a means of generating capital. If you’d like, **FoamChomsky** , you may address the question in the OP: > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by SimonX \* > **Does someone** ,(FoamChomsky),_\* have a good idea as to how we can do this\*\*(reconstruct Iraq)\*\* in a manner acceptable to the American electorate w/o UN help? \*\* ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-crucial-and-irrelevant/202844/28 "2003-09-22T13:39:31Z")
> [@](#): > > …the oil industry, which is forecast to generate $14 billion in revenue next year… > > [\* © 2003 The Washington Post Company \*](http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A44003-2003Sep21?language=printer) Here’s a projection of $14bil, (next year), vs a budget of $12bil - $13bil. The potential difference of $2bil vs a reconstruction bill of $90bil. **Foam Chomsky** , I hope that these posts w/ citations will satisfy your curiosity about Iraq’s oil reserves will NOT providing sufficient revenue to defray a “significant portion” or the cost of Iraq’s reconstruction. The US does indeed need the UN for success in the invasion of Iraq. Unless we wish to pony up ALL of the cash. Which would be a kind and generous offer to the Iraqis, but most likely an alternative that’s unacceptable to the American electorate. ---
**Author:** ![TVAA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c57346/32.png) [@TVAA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVAA)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-crucial-and-irrelevant/202844/29 "2003-09-22T13:59:12Z")
Of course the majority of Iraqis feel their lives will be better in five years. That’s not so much because they see the American occupation improving things as because the invasion has made things so bad in the short term. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-crucial-and-irrelevant/202844/30 "2003-09-22T15:21:38Z")
\>\> the majority of Iraqis feel their lives will be better in five years. The majority expect to survive that long? Wow! What an accomplishment of the Americans! ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-crucial-and-irrelevant/202844/31 "2003-09-22T16:02:01Z")
Like I said in the other thread… Comparing US with Saddam or Islamic Nations (Iraq is more secular) isnt exactly a competitive comparison. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-crucial-and-irrelevant/202844/32 "2003-09-23T09:45:31Z")
> [@](#): > > [http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/09/22/sprj.irq.bush.un/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/09/22/sprj.irq.bush.un/index.html) > > President Bush heads to the United Nations on Tuesday seeking support for his vision of postwar Iraq, even as his job approval appears to be waning and the American public has lost its enthusiasm for the war. You gotta hate it when you have to go beg from something as irrelevant as the UN. Someone please tell the president to stop begging. It’s very unbecoming. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-crucial-and-irrelevant/202844/33 "2003-09-23T13:34:07Z")
Hhhmm… if he goes on his knees will the irrelevant UN accept his requests more ? 🙂 They might of course give some small irrelevant help just to be nice… Still while Bush is in power… I doubt anyone will help Iraq… next president please ! Sad thing is that the Iraqis will lose in this tug of politics. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-crucial-and-irrelevant/202844.md?page=1)