# UN Disabilities treaty **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 5, 2012, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-disabilities-treaty/643075 "2012-12-05T15:39:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-disabilities-treaty/643075/61 "2012-12-07T23:20:21Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > It’s an endorsement. Literally the only reason to \*not \*sign it is if you have a paranoid fear of the UN. > > That’s it. Zero other reason. This is just hysteria, fomented by frightened, ignorant people who don’t know any better. That’s simply the strawman you’ve created. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-disabilities-treaty/643075/62 "2012-12-07T23:30:31Z")
> [@treis](#): > > That’s simply the strawman you’ve created. How so? The treaty costs us nothing. Our endorsement adds credibility to it. The reason the Republicans (including those who know better) voted against the treaty is they are afraid of being primaried by Tea Party types. Rick Santorum led the charge against this treaty because he was afraid that it would put homeschools under the watch of the UN. So what are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-disabilities-treaty/643075/63 "2012-12-07T23:48:21Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > How so? The treaty costs us nothing. Simply not true. It obligates to create reports we didn’t before, and there are several areas where it appears we would be obligated to create new laws and spend money. I’m not sure the legal force the courts would give this, but even if no legal obligation is created, we are still obligating ourselves morally by ratifying the treaty. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-disabilities-treaty/643075/64 "2012-12-07T23:52:55Z")
So you’re not sure if it’s true. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-disabilities-treaty/643075/65 "2012-12-07T23:54:35Z")
I’m not sure if what is true? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-disabilities-treaty/643075/66 "2012-12-07T23:56:34Z")
That the treaty costs nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-disabilities-treaty/643075/67 "2012-12-07T23:58:01Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Simply not true. It obligates to create reports we didn’t before, and there are several areas where it appears we would be obligated to create new laws and spend money. You are wrong. The treaty has no enforcement mechanism. > [@](#): > > I’m not sure the legal force the courts would give this, but even if no legal obligation is created, we are still obligating ourselves morally by ratifying the treaty. We’re obligated morally to do what we’re doing now. The treaty is based on what we do now. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-disabilities-treaty/643075/68 "2012-12-07T23:58:32Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > That the treaty costs nothing. 😕 I clearly said that it obligates us to create reports and, by my reading, new laws as well. That obviously will cost money, time, and effort. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-disabilities-treaty/643075/69 "2012-12-07T23:59:15Z")
> [@treis](#): > > 😕 > > I clearly said that it obligates us to create reports and, by my reading, new laws as well. That obviously will cost money, time, and effort. And you’re still wrong. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-disabilities-treaty/643075/70 "2012-12-08T00:07:12Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You are wrong. The treaty has no enforcement mechanism. I didn’t say UN troops would come and enforce the treaty. I said we would be obligated to follow the treaty. Morally, because we are agreeing to do so, and possibly legally because treaties are considered the law of the land according to the constitution. > [@Lobohan](#): > > We’re obligated morally to do what we’re doing now. The treaty is based on what we do now. We compile reports to the UN every four years detailing how we treat disabled people in this country? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-disabilities-treaty/643075/71 "2012-12-08T00:10:23Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I didn’t say UN troops would come and enforce the treaty. I said we would be obligated to follow the treaty. Morally, because we are agreeing to do so, and possibly legally because treaties are considered the law of the land according to the constitution. We already treat the disabled as well as the treaty wants. It’s modeled on the ADA. > [@](#): > > We compile reports to the UN every four years detailing how we treat disabled people in this country? What is the punishment for not submitting such a report? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-disabilities-treaty/643075/72 "2012-12-08T00:25:02Z")
The Department of Justice and the Congressional Office of Compliance already compile reports, more often than that, on our own ADA compliance. Summaries of these could easily be sent to the UN, to continue our example-setting on the issue. It would cost a couple of staffers a couple hours per year. Plus postage. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-disabilities-treaty/643075/73 "2012-12-08T00:25:10Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Basically, you can’t win this one because the UN rigged the game in favor of Amazing Stupidity forever ago. For this to have wasted even five seconds of the Senate’s time is cause enough for me to wonder if we can’t pass a law requiring whomever submitted it to be kicked in the vulnerables every hour on the hour until he (or she) begs and pleads that he (or she) will _stop being a complete moron_. I know this must come as a shock, but our nation’s highest lawmaking body should stop wasting its time on useless verbiage which insults the intelligence of every single living American, while accomplishing nothing whatsoever. > > In short, you can’t win this argument precisely _because_ you are outraged - OUTRAGED! - that people don’t want to deal with pointless nonsense. You yourself not only admit, but proudly proclaim, that the treaty does nothing. In which case, throw it in the trash where all meaningless resolutions, half-baked bills, and other examples of emotion masquerading as work belong. Speaking of wasting time, I trust you have written to your Congresscritter protesting that the House repealed Obamacare, what, 37 times already? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-disabilities-treaty/643075/74 "2012-12-08T00:25:40Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > We already treat the disabled as well as the treaty wants. It’s modeled on the ADA. Again, this doesn’t appear to be true. For example, one of the items is: > [@](#): > > (e) Provide forms of live assistance and intermediaries, including guides, readers and professional sign language interpreters, to facilitate accessibility to buildings and other facilities open to the public; As far as I know there is no requirement under the ADA to provide any of these. > [@Lobohan](#): > > What is the punishment for not submitting such a report? I’m not sure what you are suggesting here. Are you implying that this treaty will cost us nothing because we will ignore every promise we make? That’s a rather dubious contention. Besides, how is ratifying the treaty and then proceeding to ignore it better than just not ratifying it? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-disabilities-treaty/643075/75 "2012-12-08T00:26:02Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > It would cost a couple of staffers a couple hours per year. Plus postage. _Tyranny!_ ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-disabilities-treaty/643075/76 "2012-12-08T00:50:38Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > What is stopping the UN from fixing the refugee camps if the US doesn’t sign this stupid thing? > > Regards, > Shodan What’s to stop the local Safeway from deciding to earn extra money by turning into a discotheque at night? Organizations are generally run by rules and principals. There are funding and other limitations that make it difficult for organizations to do things that have no official support. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-disabilities-treaty/643075/77 "2012-12-08T00:54:18Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Again, this doesn’t appear to be true. For example, one of the items is: > > As far as I know there is no requirement under the ADA to provide any of these. Look up a few lines: “2. States Parties shall also take appropriate measures to:” Appropriate measures. It’s not saying that sign language experts have to be in every restroom in the country. > [@](#): > > I’m not sure what you are suggesting here. Are you implying that this treaty will cost us nothing because we will ignore every promise we make? That’s a rather dubious contention. Besides, how is ratifying the treaty and then proceeding to ignore it better than just not ratifying it? I was trying to point out that your fear of the powers of this treaty were unjustified. It has no powers. It is based on good will and acceptance. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-disabilities-treaty/643075/78 "2012-12-08T06:44:56Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I was trying to point out that your fear of the powers of this treaty were unjustified. The point is that you are wrong. You are said that we treat the disabled as well as the treaty wants. That simply is not true. There are parts of it that we don’t have laws covering. So if we want to be in compliance we are going to have to pass laws. Nor does this treaty have no cost, like you contend. There are reports to compile, and it is extremely unlikely that it is a couple hour job. To do it right, each point will need to be matched to an applicable law, and the effectiveness of that law needs to be reported. That is a significant effort, and will cost a lot of money. It seems like you are saying we can simply ignore everything in the treaty. While that is likely true, I would rather just not agree to do something than agree to do it with no intention of actually doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-disabilities-treaty/643075/79 "2012-12-08T15:09:01Z")
**treis** , can you link to the treaty text that calls for specific measures beyond the scope of the ADA? Your claims are not in line with any of the reports I’ve heard. Again, reports on ADA compliance are already routine. I’m sure we generate far more data than the UN actually expects, so the only ‘work’ involved would be editing it down. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-disabilities-treaty/643075/80 "2012-12-08T15:47:29Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > What’s to stop the local Safeway from deciding to earn extra money by turning into a discotheque at night? Organizations are generally run by rules and principals. There are funding and other limitations that make it difficult for organizations to do things that have no official support. So the US needs to sign this treaty, and then somebody won’t turn a refugee camp into a disco, but if we don’t, then they will. Is that it? [QUOTE=Lobohan] What is the punishment for not submitting such a report? [/QUOTE] So the US should sign the treaty, and then ignore some or all of its provisions. This is setting a good example? I think we are going about this discussion the wrong way. Somebody give me a good reason why we should sign this, and please be specific. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-disabilities-treaty/643075.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-disabilities-treaty/643075.md?page=5)