# Un-Kindle-able books **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 19, 2010, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-kindle-able-books/557622 "2010-10-19T03:08:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-kindle-able-books/557622/21 "2010-10-19T16:43:25Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I have read a lot of these already in print without the extras. My copy of Never Ending Story had no multiple colors. Neither did my copy of the Princess Bride. > > While I like the text/font changes, most books can be done without them. I did laugh though to see a free e-book on Amazon called “The Illustrated book of birds” and every review was complaining how the book didn’t have any illustrations. Why even put it on, then? Was it the expurgated version? The one without the gannet? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-kindle-able-books/557622/22 "2010-10-19T16:46:42Z")
Any book with a [flip book-style](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flip_book) animation. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-kindle-able-books/557622/23 "2010-10-19T17:00:39Z")
> [@Max\_Torque](#): > > Was it the expurgated version? The one without the gannet? : looks completely blank: : slinks away : ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-kindle-able-books/557622/24 "2010-10-19T17:15:00Z")
> [@Max\_Torque](#): > > Came in to mention **House of Leaves** , but you beat me to it, and the OP beat us both. heh. Yeah, that book gets DQ’d on fonts, text colors, illustrations, non-traditional (to say the least) page layouts, non-preset page sizes (example: the footnotes frequently get so extensive that they take over the page), page numbering (there’s an instance where a checkmark is put next to a particular page number), not to mention nit being paper. The scene where a particular paper book is used unconventionally in the tunnels of the house is important for that. **Only Revolutions** , by the same author, can be read starting from either cover (both of which appear to be the front cover), as the “footnote” space on each page has upside-down text in it. This is what you’d be reading if you’d started from the other cover. He tells an interwoven tale of two characters, from each of their viewpoints, and the story’s interpretation can be different depending which cover you started from. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-kindle-able-books/557622/25 "2010-10-19T18:07:27Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > : looks completely blank: > > : slinks away : They wet their nests. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-kindle-able-books/557622/26 "2010-10-19T18:28:27Z")
> [@Sattua](#): > > Books that come with significant illustrations… lots of the early Agatha Christie mysteries come with the floor plan of a house or a railway carriage, and one comes with the scorecards from a bridge game that is played early on. Does Kindle do illustrations? > > Likewise, some of Lewis Carroll’s works include original illustrations which aren’t necessary but which add a lot–I remember in particular a map of a ship’s location in the ocean. The only feature on the map is the ship. > > And what about the maps and runes in Lord of the Rings? > > _Tristram Shandy_ has lots of in-line gobbledegook which is outside the boundaries of typesetting. Scribbles, dots, etc. > > I guess a Kindle Bible wouldn’t be doing the words of Jesus Christ in red, either. Simple black-and-whilte illustrations are no problem on the Kindle. Photographs can be done, but they don’t look too good. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-kindle-able-books/557622/27 "2010-10-19T18:30:33Z")
> [@Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](#): > > How does the Kindle handle books with lots of footnotes, like Mary Roach’s books, or lots of endnotes, like the Flashman books? Are footnotes shown on the page, and perhaps there’s a link to the the endnotes? Footnotes and endnotes generally work as special kinds of links. You move the cursor to them and click, and it shows the note. Then click the “back” button to go back to the text. However, it requires the book publisher to set up the notes properly. On some early books it wasn’t done right (perhaps they didn’t know how to do it right). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-kindle-able-books/557622/28 "2010-10-19T20:21:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Likewise, some of Lewis Carroll’s works include original illustrations which aren’t necessary but which add a lot–I remember in particular a map of a ship’s location in the ocean. The only feature on the map is the ship. That reminds me: Can the Kindle do mirrored text, like in “Jabberwocky”? ---
**Author:** ![antonio107](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ea924/32.png) [@antonio107](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antonio107)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-kindle-able-books/557622/29 "2010-10-19T20:30:50Z")
I’ve been reading all of the Sherlock Holmes stories on my Kobo (a comparable e-reader). Several of his short stories make use of maps, cyrptographic messages, or otherwise have some nice graphics which appear thusly in the body of the story: (graphic) It genuinely pisses me off when I’m reading it on the go or in bed, and I then whip out my blackberry to do a google image and see what the hell the secret message/drawing was in the first place! I’m by no means an expert on the technology behind these things, but all e-readers are PDF compliant, yes? As such, they’re capable of displaying images. I have PDFs with images in them. I’ve seen them on my e-reader. They’re not “great,” but they’re acceptable, at least moreso than having to supplement my latest e-geegaw with a google search… ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-kindle-able-books/557622/30 "2010-10-19T23:25:27Z")
The last few pages of Tom Robbins’ **Still Life With Woodpecker** are hand-written, ostensibly after the author has yanked the plug on his Remington electric typewriter. ---
**Author:** ![Electric\_Warrior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@Electric\_Warrior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Electric_Warrior)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-kindle-able-books/557622/31 "2010-10-20T01:21:22Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > On a more serious note, _The Neverending Story_ is written in two different colors of ink (green and purple, in my copy), and the colors end up being very significant. My copy uses italics vs. regular text, which I think could be done on a Kindle. Those Choose Your Own Adventure titles might be a bit difficult to port… ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-kindle-able-books/557622/32 "2010-10-20T01:39:36Z")
> [@Electric\_Warrior](#): > > Those Choose Your Own Adventure titles might be a bit difficult to port… I don’t see why. If the Kindle can link to footnotes/endnotes, it can link to page choices. Choose Your Own Adventure were paper-and-ink hypertext, anyway…\If you want to do x\, \if you want to do y\. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-kindle-able-books/557622/33 "2010-10-20T04:05:53Z")
> [@Max\_Torque](#): > > Was it the expurgated version? The one without the gannet? I’m glad I’m not the only one whose mind immediately went there. ---
**Author:** ![GameHat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ed655f/32.png) [@GameHat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GameHat)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-kindle-able-books/557622/34 "2010-10-20T04:12:58Z")
on the other hand, I’m a Kindle lover, but Kindle really fucks up some texts. I enjoyed [Here’s looking at Euclid](http://www.amazon.com/Heres-Looking-Euclid-Surprising-Astonishing/dp/1416588256/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1287547848&sr=8-1), but not as much as I might have. See, I read it on Kindle. Half of the relevant equations were all shoved to the chapter appendices. The other half simply didn’t display properly on the Kindle. All of them should have properly displayed, in context, in the passage to which they were relevant. Fuck you, Kindle. For a math book, this is pretty unacceptable. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-kindle-able-books/557622/35 "2010-10-20T08:49:43Z")
I wonder why there is such a common misconception that the Kindle can’t do graphics? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Johnny\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Q)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-kindle-able-books/557622/36 "2010-10-20T20:56:47Z")
Any pop-up book. ---
**Author:** ![Electric\_Warrior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@Electric\_Warrior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Electric_Warrior)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-kindle-able-books/557622/37 "2010-10-20T22:42:11Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I don’t see why. If the Kindle can link to footnotes/endnotes, it can link to page choices. Choose Your Own Adventure were paper-and-ink hypertext, anyway…\If you want to do x\, \if you want to do y\. Good point. Of course when I read them (er, not that I _ever_ read CYOA books as a 19 year old. at all…) I like to stick my fingers in wherever I make a decision so I can flip right back to it. Do Kindles have a back button? ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-kindle-able-books/557622/38 "2010-10-20T23:25:23Z")
> [@postcards](#): > > Seriously, my first thought of un-Kindleable books would be the [Griffin and Sabine](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Griffin_and_Sabine_Trilogy) trilogy. This is what I came in to post as well. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-kindle-able-books/557622/39 "2010-10-21T04:19:37Z")
> [@OpalCat](#): > > I wonder why there is such a common misconception that the Kindle can’t do graphics? Because it does picture quality images substandard and clumsily, and image contrast and improvement of the display technology is a built in generational improvement in a futureKindle 3.9 somewhere down the line. The Kindle you have is already obsolete. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-kindle-able-books/557622/40 "2010-10-21T05:46:00Z")
Just answering some questions and clearing up some apparent misconceptions: Kindles do photo-quality images quite well, certainly well enough for most purposes, though they are limited to B&W. Since Kindle books can be read on your computer, phone, etc., however, it is very easy to see any images in full-color and pristine quality, even if you can’t see it well enough on your Kindle. Images can be integrated into the text for things like Elvish writing in “The Lord of the Rings” or complex equations in a math textbook. [ETA: “Here’s Looking at Euclid” isn’t available on Kindle anymore, so apparently the publishers decided to remove it rather than do it right!] Kindles can read PDF files, and just about anything you can do in a PDF can be done in a Kindle file. Unfortunately, publishers often produce substandard e-books, especially when they are converting existing works to Kindle format. They very often include images at very low resolution. They frequently use texts produced by scanning printed editions and using optical character recognition, which produces a lot of errors, and the resulting e-texts are very frequently uncorrected. For public domain works like the Sherlock Homes stories, Amazon has eliminated most of the shoddily produced duplications, but I think it’s still the case that most of the editions are the result of people converting Project Gutenberg texts, which are not professionally produced (though I appreciate what they do!), generally don’t rely on the best printed editions and, especially for their earlier e-books, may lack illustrations and even basic typographic features. Fortunately, authors and readers are demanding better quality, and Amazon will happily refund your money for any Kindle book that doesn’t meet your standards. E-books as a percentage of books sold have skyrocketed recently (up to almost 10% from just over 3% in 2009!), and I think they will overtake paperbooks within 10 years, maybe within five. So more and better e-books are certainly on the way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-kindle-able-books/557622.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-kindle-able-books/557622.md?page=3)